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[Music]

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you're in the para cast the gold

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standard of paranormal radio now here's

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gene Stein this week chris is on special

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assignment we're recovering from the

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International UFO Congress you could

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take it any way you want regardless he's

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not here but we have asked at the last

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minute our own forum moderator and

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occasional guest co-host Coggs Makai to

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join us cogs how is it going for you I'm

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going great gene and as I told you about

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recently I'm really getting into my new

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iMac I am it's a long time since I've

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been using marks and this computer is

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lightyears ahead of everything anything

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I do and in the past so really happy

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getting to grips to this I'm looking

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forward to the show today this is one of

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those 5k IMAX right yeah it is Wow

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okay well glad that you got your new

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equipment congratulations now you could

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use all the latest stuff with it let's

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move on to some exciting times here now

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there's a lot of debate in the power

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cast forums at forum dot the power cast

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got come about these alleged Roswell

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slides I'm sure you've been following

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with gods yeah

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the of Roswell slide supposedly they're

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found in an attic somewhere two slides

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and now they're trying to say that what

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you see on those slides may be the body

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of an alien more to the point maybe a

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body of an alien from the Roswell crash

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and I'm still wondering about making the

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connections here what do you think I

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haven't studied the photos in slides in

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detail and I believe there are some a

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few more still yet to be seen in public

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when they're going to be revealed but

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it's been said before that all it's

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showing is you know it's a picture even

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if even if it's proved to be film stock

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of that era it still doesn't

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anything and it certainly doesn't prove

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that that body on that stretcher

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came from the crash scene near Roswell

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but what I'm really thinking could be

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interesting is if it's possible to

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determine firstly that the slide isn't a

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composite you know a modern fake and if

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it's possible to check that anything in

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the background you know corresponds to

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the real location so say that what used

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to be the hospital the Roswell Army

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Airfield things like that the reason why

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I think this could be interesting if it

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is supposedly a original 1940s film

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stock it's just that in the site in

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science fiction in the public

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consciousness there wasn't the image of

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the grey alien as we know it now so if

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this is original image this kind of you

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know small alien being kind of precedes

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what was to come later on quite a bit

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later on so even though it doesn't

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proven anything itself that that's quite

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interesting I'll be very interested to

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see what the remaining slides tell to

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clarify what we're seeing is not the

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original slides but a copy of some kind

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of video presentation showing the slide

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so we do not see them in full resolution

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so we don't know exactly how precise

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this image is how clear it is and until

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we see that until we see the photo

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analysis that might have been done then

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we're really just whistling in the dark

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here yes because it's only just it's a

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leak that's happened so far and that's

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why it's not anything near original but

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if I'm right I'm right that there will

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be supposedly original slides coming or

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are we saying there we're only ever

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going to be seeing copies we're supposed

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to see what the original slides look

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like okay use them with a slide

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projector

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yeah that's supposed to happen in May at

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an event that's sponsored by a Mexican

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UFO researcher who's kind of

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controversial I mean the Sun in Mexico

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City and you have to pay for it it's not

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like you're inviting the press down you

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have to

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not just a press conference in America

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so regardless if they filled the seats

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they can make money off it and I have no

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problem with making money from what you

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do has to pay the bills I worry about

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the pomp and the circumstance ahead of

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presenting authentic information because

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if this is what purports to be and right

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now we just have hype and we just have

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vapor which is the phrase in the

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computer industry for announcing a

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product or software that doesn't really

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come out or ends up not quite being

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what's touted to be so we have something

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here where we have the promise of a

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smoking gun or a possible smoking gun in

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the Roswell case and that's a lot of

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connections to make even if it was an

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alien being where does it come from

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visit from the Roswell case and even if

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the photo emulsion is dated back to 1947

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which is what they claim how do you know

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when the picture was taken remember

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today when we take photos on your

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iPhones or your Samsung phone or

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something or any digital camera there

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geotagged with time and location but a

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Kodachrome slide you know maybe that

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film was sitting in a refrigerator for

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10 years which helps preserve it and

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then somebody takes the picture or fakes

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the picture no idea we'll see what

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happens there's not even a hope of an

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ever decent evidence chain it's also

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interesting I think that you know in

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ufology often we want to be taken

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seriously certain we would love to be

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taken seriously by the scientific

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community at large and I agree with you

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that I don't have a problem with anyone

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making money certainly if you're gonna

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have to front a convention or something

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like I yeah you need to recoup your

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costs and stuff but having this like

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whatever ten thousand seater arena in

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Mexico City this huge grandstanding

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before any analysis it's the wrong way

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around if you want to be taken see this

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is my my opinion but you know how much

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checking you will never be able to join

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the dots and as you're saying there's no

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way even if the even if it's a real

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photo there's no way to actually put

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that a parent being at the Roswell crash

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there are lots of holes in the evidence

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gene well we're going to see that Shane

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is filled but right now what bothers me

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is the hype that instead of just sitting

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back and saying look when everything is

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ready we'll give you the information you

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get all these preliminary reports and

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grandstanding and that creates a

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situation where expectations rise and

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they're saying themselves up for a big

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fall as I said follow the Apple

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incorporated playbook Apple doesn't

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announce a product or a service till

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it's ready or till there's a marketing

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reason for them to have that product or

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service announced they don't announce it

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otherwise they let the rumormongers go

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on but here we have all the hints being

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dropped and we still don't know that

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there's anything serious going on we'll

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have to see do you see the parallels

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with a whole Melba Ketchum situation

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with the supposed Bigfoot DNA and how

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that became public supposedly before

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when it should have and there's this

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kind of a similar thing going on here

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that isn't very positive for the subject

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now on this week's episode of the

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podcast were returning to Rendlesham

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forest and the key reason is because one

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of the key figures in that case one of

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the witnesses former airman first class

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John burrows has been on the show a

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couple of times and he had been fighting

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with the Veterans Administration to get

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coverage for a medical disability that

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supposedly relates to what happened

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and renders from farce and he elicited a

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lawyer to help him out and the VA is

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pretty difficult to deal with look at

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all the controversies about the VA so

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what we've done today is we've invited

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John with his attorney who's going to

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explain the process and how he got

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involved because he's a guy in

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Mississippi who took on this case to

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help a veteran get what was due him

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we'll also hear from Nick Pope

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and as you know Nick was on the para

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cast not so long ago with John and we

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were discussing a book in which they all

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participated in called encounter and

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Rendlesham forest all right and there's

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been some controversy over that book

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involving Peter Robbins who was

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co-author of left at Eastgate this is

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pretty involved folks will focus on that

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very little I'd rather focus on what in

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the press release says the US

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government's de facto acknowledgement of

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the existence of UFOs in accepting the

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claim from John burrows more to come

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with gene and gods Makai urine the

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podcast first game attack of the rockets

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and it was a critically acclaimed

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success and now there's the coming of

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the protectors a former military

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intelligence man is contacted by a space

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woman in a dream a dream that turns out

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to be a nightmare because evil forces on

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our distant planet are planning to

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conquer the earth

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this is gripping science fiction of the

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classic kind attack of the rock codes

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and the coming of the protectors find

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out more at rockets calm that's Rockets

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are Ock oids calm so here's what

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happened I was placing an order online

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the site went down it took hours before

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it returned but I'd already placed the

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order with another company if your site

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00:13:10,630 --> 00:13:08,480
extend of light I would like to thank

275
00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:10,640
you for making my job so much easier

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00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:12,170
because your products just make it so

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00:13:15,550 --> 00:13:13,730
simple right to fool around with a lot

278
00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:15,560
of exotic things that don't work we can

279
00:13:18,550 --> 00:13:17,450
put among your products and things start

280
00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:18,560
to work almost for anyway

281
00:13:22,150 --> 00:13:20,330
I bet dozens and dozens of patients

282
00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:22,160
through his heart problems who have

283
00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:24,410
corrected them and what is doing there's

284
00:13:28,090 --> 00:13:26,090
so much garlic in there that have a

285
00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:28,100
yeast killing effect the East is a big

286
00:13:32,020 --> 00:13:29,810
problem in the gut pushes the liver

287
00:13:33,670 --> 00:13:32,030
heart and also as metal chelating effect

288
00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:33,680
and most of the other herbs in there and

289
00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:35,330
find that strengthen the arteries they

290
00:13:39,190 --> 00:13:37,130
help to neutralize free radicals

291
00:13:40,930 --> 00:13:39,200
your RAAM is close to what we do in our

292
00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:40,940
program as you can get as far as one

293
00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:43,250
supplement goes it's working on the guys

294
00:13:47,740 --> 00:13:45,530
working on the liver working on the

295
00:13:50,020 --> 00:13:47,750
arteries what work in the amp are to get

296
00:13:52,210 --> 00:13:50,030
your extender bite call one eight seven

297
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seven nine two eight eight eight two two

298
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or visit hard rope calm

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00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:00,750
[Music]

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00:14:05,730 --> 00:14:03,730
we'd like to hear from you if you have a

301
00:14:09,660 --> 00:14:05,740
comment or question about the para cast

302
00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:09,670
sent it to news at the para cast com

303
00:14:15,150 --> 00:14:13,090
that's news at the para cast table and

304
00:14:18,500 --> 00:14:15,160
don't forget to visit our famous para

305
00:14:23,130 --> 00:14:18,510
cast community forums at forum dot the

306
00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:23,140
podcast.com so we're joined by Nick Pope

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00:14:28,410 --> 00:14:25,690
and of course you all recall he was

308
00:14:31,140 --> 00:14:28,420
involved with the UFO desk at the UK

309
00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:31,150
Ministry of Defense's written or

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00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:33,490
co-authored such books as encounter of

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00:14:37,830 --> 00:14:36,010
Rendlesham forest we also have John

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00:14:41,100 --> 00:14:37,840
Burroughs who was a co-author of that

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00:14:42,930 --> 00:14:41,110
book and one of the key figures in the

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00:14:45,930 --> 00:14:42,940
Rendlesham case we also have an attorney

315
00:14:47,490 --> 00:14:45,940
from Mississippi Patrick frost ganya and

316
00:14:49,950 --> 00:14:47,500
if I keep mispronouncing his name it's

317
00:14:52,260 --> 00:14:49,960
because my Italian and we're going to

318
00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:52,270
cover a lot of ground here so if you

319
00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:54,130
think I'm giving it short shrift I'm

320
00:14:58,410 --> 00:14:56,530
sorry about that of course we have God's

321
00:15:01,140 --> 00:14:58,420
Makai as our guest co-host this week

322
00:15:03,570 --> 00:15:01,150
Chris was not able to make it and a very

323
00:15:05,820 --> 00:15:03,580
quick announcement for you if you

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haven't checked it out yet we have the

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331
00:15:26,910 --> 00:15:24,490
podcast and this week it's going to be

332
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me and God's doing that segment after

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00:15:31,530 --> 00:15:29,410
the power cast if you go for a

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subscription of one year or five years

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stocking the tricksters go to plus stop

337
00:15:43,140 --> 00:15:39,460
the para cast com+ thought the power

338
00:15:46,710 --> 00:15:43,150
cast calm Nick before we go on as you

339
00:15:50,490 --> 00:15:46,720
know we did an episode the power cast

340
00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:50,500
back in December with peter robbins one

341
00:15:55,020 --> 00:15:52,090
of the co-authors of left at Eastgate

342
00:15:57,810 --> 00:15:55,030
and he's involved in this ebook called

343
00:16:01,170 --> 00:15:57,820
deliberate deception and I take it

344
00:16:04,170 --> 00:16:01,180
obviously he was none too happy with the

345
00:16:06,570 --> 00:16:04,180
book that you did Nick about Rendlesham

346
00:16:08,190 --> 00:16:06,580
with John of course what is the

347
00:16:11,260 --> 00:16:08,200
situation here what's going on what's

348
00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:11,270
your response well you know despite

349
00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:14,090
attempts to kind of spin this as some

350
00:16:20,410 --> 00:16:17,290
great controversy in the UFO community

351
00:16:24,460 --> 00:16:20,420
bottom line is Peter doesn't like our

352
00:16:26,830 --> 00:16:24,470
book and you know we get bad he's made

353
00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:26,840
her he's made a whole bunch of Facebook

354
00:16:31,750 --> 00:16:29,570
posts about it been on a couple of radio

355
00:16:34,690 --> 00:16:31,760
shows and and as I say you know he's

356
00:16:37,900 --> 00:16:34,700
he's said that he doesn't like our book

357
00:16:40,870 --> 00:16:37,910
but to try to imply that the UFO

358
00:16:43,270 --> 00:16:40,880
community is up in arms and the great's

359
00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:43,280
Campbell and that encounter in

360
00:16:49,570 --> 00:16:45,170
Rendlesham forest is part of some

361
00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:49,580
sinister government disinformation plot

362
00:16:55,780 --> 00:16:53,090
to discredit him and all Larry Warren I

363
00:16:59,560 --> 00:16:55,790
mean that's that's just fantasy I wish

364
00:17:02,830 --> 00:16:59,570
Peter well but you know our book was not

365
00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:02,840
about Larry Warren and Larry's had his

366
00:17:08,079 --> 00:17:05,450
say Peters had his say encounter in

367
00:17:11,199 --> 00:17:08,089
Rendlesham forest was John Jim and

368
00:17:13,750 --> 00:17:11,209
myself putting what we thought we wanted

369
00:17:16,449 --> 00:17:13,760
to say out bottom-line Peter doesn't

370
00:17:19,570 --> 00:17:16,459
like the book that's his prerogative and

371
00:17:21,430 --> 00:17:19,580
that's really despite you know all the

372
00:17:23,980 --> 00:17:21,440
tens of thousands of words that have

373
00:17:26,260 --> 00:17:23,990
been written about all this frankly

374
00:17:28,140 --> 00:17:26,270
that's all there is to say just one

375
00:17:30,430 --> 00:17:28,150
brief follow-up question then Nick

376
00:17:34,150 --> 00:17:30,440
obviously questions are raised I guess

377
00:17:37,150 --> 00:17:34,160
about your former association with the

378
00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:37,160
government of the UK and that is part of

379
00:17:41,410 --> 00:17:39,410
the common conspiracy theory in the UFO

380
00:17:42,670 --> 00:17:41,420
field if you ever work for the

381
00:17:45,460 --> 00:17:42,680
government maybe you're part of the

382
00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:45,470
conspiracy to hide UFO information yeah

383
00:17:51,190 --> 00:17:47,570
well I can't none of us can escape our

384
00:17:54,730 --> 00:17:51,200
past this comes up with with anyone

385
00:17:56,980 --> 00:17:54,740
involved in this field who who has been

386
00:17:58,810 --> 00:17:56,990
in this sort of position and worked for

387
00:18:02,410 --> 00:17:58,820
the government I mean John Alexander I'm

388
00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:02,420
sure has similar yes use yeah I worked

389
00:18:05,950 --> 00:18:03,650
for the government for the British

390
00:18:07,900 --> 00:18:05,960
government for twenty-one years at the

391
00:18:09,940 --> 00:18:07,910
Ministry of Defence I did a lot of

392
00:18:13,780 --> 00:18:09,950
interesting things self-evidently I

393
00:18:16,630 --> 00:18:13,790
can't talk about a lot of that because I

394
00:18:19,470 --> 00:18:16,640
signed the Official Secrets Act a lot of

395
00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:19,480
information is still classified but

396
00:18:24,060 --> 00:18:23,090
extrapolate from there and and say that

397
00:18:27,389 --> 00:18:24,070
I'm

398
00:18:30,180 --> 00:18:27,399
Guardian of some great secret about this

399
00:18:33,719 --> 00:18:30,190
part of a cover-up candidate member of

400
00:18:36,029 --> 00:18:33,729
mj-12 whatever the the accusations are I

401
00:18:38,219 --> 00:18:36,039
mean again you know people can believe

402
00:18:41,430 --> 00:18:38,229
that if they want but it simply isn't

403
00:18:44,129 --> 00:18:41,440
true you know in a sense I can deny it

404
00:18:45,899 --> 00:18:44,139
til the cows come home my might denials

405
00:18:48,029 --> 00:18:45,909
are hardly going to be believed by the

406
00:18:49,909 --> 00:18:48,039
conspiracy theorists anyway so in a

407
00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:49,919
sense what's the point in even trying

408
00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:52,450
also I would think if you had guilty

409
00:18:56,940 --> 00:18:54,369
knowledge about UFOs that would blow the

410
00:18:58,820 --> 00:18:56,950
lid on everything why would you even get

411
00:19:00,749 --> 00:18:58,830
involved in the field in the first place

412
00:19:02,969 --> 00:19:00,759
exactly exactly

413
00:19:05,129 --> 00:19:02,979
can I jump in on that real fast sure

414
00:19:07,169 --> 00:19:05,139
John okay one of the things that I'm

415
00:19:08,399 --> 00:19:07,179
gonna bring up later being you know

416
00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:08,409
because we're getting close to the end

417
00:19:12,989 --> 00:19:10,570
probably the first segment anyway is the

418
00:19:15,719 --> 00:19:12,999
Knicks been trying to get some stuff out

419
00:19:18,450 --> 00:19:15,729
for years and it all is gonna lead back

420
00:19:20,070 --> 00:19:18,460
to what ended up a lot of it having to

421
00:19:22,859 --> 00:19:20,080
do with me being able to get my

422
00:19:24,719 --> 00:19:22,869
disability approved and you know on

423
00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:24,729
stuff that we focused on when we went

424
00:19:29,460 --> 00:19:27,129
forward with the VA Pat Nye and that's

425
00:19:31,379 --> 00:19:29,470
project condign and Nick as soon as this

426
00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:31,389
was Declassified started talking about

427
00:19:35,789 --> 00:19:34,210
it so I think people need to understand

428
00:19:37,169 --> 00:19:35,799
that Nick as actually been out there

429
00:19:38,609 --> 00:19:37,179
trying to get people to pay more

430
00:19:40,950 --> 00:19:38,619
attention and they really have and

431
00:19:43,409 --> 00:19:40,960
they've chose to ignore it which is

432
00:19:44,609 --> 00:19:43,419
their fault not Nick's ok Matt maybe

433
00:19:47,849 --> 00:19:44,619
there'll be questions from listeners

434
00:19:49,649 --> 00:19:47,859
about that but let's move on let's go to

435
00:19:52,349 --> 00:19:49,659
the future and see what's happening now

436
00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:52,359
Patrick fresque Anya is an attorney from

437
00:19:57,869 --> 00:19:54,970
Mississippi who takes on a lot of cases

438
00:19:58,710 --> 00:19:57,879
I gather that go against the

439
00:20:01,469 --> 00:19:58,720
corporation's

440
00:20:03,539 --> 00:20:01,479
go against the man as they say in this

441
00:20:05,249 --> 00:20:03,549
case Pat why did you get involved with

442
00:20:08,789 --> 00:20:05,259
this did you have an interest in UFOs

443
00:20:11,969 --> 00:20:08,799
before this came to your desk not

444
00:20:14,820 --> 00:20:11,979
particularly Jayne I wouldn't say so by

445
00:20:17,719 --> 00:20:14,830
invitation of John and at the time Jim

446
00:20:21,089 --> 00:20:17,729
Penniston to get involved with them

447
00:20:24,419 --> 00:20:21,099
given the importance and the credibility

448
00:20:27,690 --> 00:20:24,429
of the Rendlesham forest incident it

449
00:20:30,239 --> 00:20:27,700
just seemed like a natural to help them

450
00:20:34,919 --> 00:20:30,249
there was no hesitation not for me at

451
00:20:37,500 --> 00:20:34,929
least okay so did you seek out John and

452
00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:37,510
Jim or had you heard about this

453
00:20:43,530 --> 00:20:40,690
case before this started what that's

454
00:20:45,750 --> 00:20:43,540
kind of a yes yes and no answer to that

455
00:20:49,350 --> 00:20:45,760
I had originally seen the television

456
00:20:51,330 --> 00:20:49,360
program back around 2008 that involved

457
00:20:53,180 --> 00:20:51,340
it was about the Rendlesham forest sense

458
00:20:56,940 --> 00:20:53,190
and it was the first time I'd ever even

459
00:20:59,190 --> 00:20:56,950
was was aware of that and although I've

460
00:21:01,830 --> 00:20:59,200
had a passing interest in UFOs thirty

461
00:21:05,610 --> 00:21:01,840
years even since childhood I never had a

462
00:21:08,310 --> 00:21:05,620
great interest in the topic until I saw

463
00:21:10,170 --> 00:21:08,320
that program and it struck me

464
00:21:14,220 --> 00:21:10,180
immediately at that time is something

465
00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:14,230
special very special and I decided that

466
00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:16,570
I would like to meet the principals of

467
00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:19,450
that of that incident goes through John

468
00:21:25,230 --> 00:21:22,090
and John Burroughs and Jim Penniston and

469
00:21:27,630 --> 00:21:25,240
so ultimately I organized a conference a

470
00:21:31,410 --> 00:21:27,640
UFO conference here in my home state of

471
00:21:34,890 --> 00:21:31,420
Mississippi in 2011 and invited them to

472
00:21:37,670 --> 00:21:34,900
come primarily so that I could Nathan so

473
00:21:39,930 --> 00:21:37,680
that I could assess for myself what that

474
00:21:42,990 --> 00:21:39,940
incident was all about whether it was as

475
00:21:45,360 --> 00:21:43,000
as credible as it seemed and so forth it

476
00:21:48,630 --> 00:21:45,370
was from that conference a meeting them

477
00:21:52,500 --> 00:21:48,640
that they then asked me to join with

478
00:21:54,990 --> 00:21:52,510
them in their struggle to obtain records

479
00:21:57,990 --> 00:21:55,000
and so forth let's go into the problem

480
00:22:01,020 --> 00:21:58,000
here now we all know the VA especially

481
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:01,030
the VA in Phoenix Arizona has been under

482
00:22:06,420 --> 00:22:03,730
fire for just incompetence ignoring

483
00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:06,430
patients allowing patients who very very

484
00:22:11,700 --> 00:22:08,050
sick not to get the treatment that they

485
00:22:14,370 --> 00:22:11,710
deserved and we'll get into God's

486
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:14,380
question on next segment but here's the

487
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:17,770
thing here in getting involved in

488
00:22:23,100 --> 00:22:20,050
something like this and taking on a case

489
00:22:25,830 --> 00:22:23,110
like this against the government coping

490
00:22:27,750 --> 00:22:25,840
with a bureaucracy do you think that the

491
00:22:30,180 --> 00:22:27,760
problems he encountered in getting his

492
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:30,190
coverage were related to other VA issues

493
00:22:35,670 --> 00:22:32,890
or something specific because he had a

494
00:22:39,270 --> 00:22:35,680
UFO sighting we'll have more to come we

495
00:22:42,060 --> 00:22:39,280
have John burrows Nick Pope Patrick

496
00:22:47,790 --> 00:22:42,070
fresh Konya more to come with Jeanne and

497
00:22:54,100 --> 00:22:50,740
free from the shackles of Corporate

498
00:23:03,010 --> 00:22:54,110
America we're the place for independent

499
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:03,020
agency is there a secret UFO agenda to

500
00:23:07,810 --> 00:23:05,090
stranged creatures from the darkest

501
00:23:10,060 --> 00:23:07,820
corners of the mind roam the earth is

502
00:23:12,430 --> 00:23:10,070
there evidence for mind control time

503
00:23:15,490 --> 00:23:12,440
travel or devious government

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00:23:17,980 --> 00:23:15,500
conspiracies find out the inside scoop

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on the latest conspiracies paranormal

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[Music]

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569
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570
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572
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573
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574
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575
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579
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580
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581
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582
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583
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584
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585
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587
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[Music]

595
00:27:10,230 --> 00:27:08,080
hi this is Bryce Abel I'm the producer

596
00:27:12,150 --> 00:27:10,240
of dark skies the co-author of AD after

597
00:27:14,300 --> 00:27:12,160
disclosure and you are listening to the

598
00:27:16,660 --> 00:27:14,310
para cast the gold standard of

599
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:16,670
paranormal radio

600
00:27:22,380 --> 00:27:19,650
[Music]

601
00:27:23,940 --> 00:27:22,390
we have Cox Makai as our guest co-host

602
00:27:26,100 --> 00:27:23,950
this weekend Lapera cast on gene

603
00:27:29,450 --> 00:27:26,110
Steinberg Chris will be back next week

604
00:27:32,670 --> 00:27:29,460
our guests Nick Pope John Burroughs

605
00:27:35,550 --> 00:27:32,680
Patrick frost ganya an attorney who took

606
00:27:37,590 --> 00:27:35,560
on the case of defending John burrows to

607
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:37,600
get the money do him from the VA so

608
00:27:41,820 --> 00:27:39,730
framing the question I asked in the last

609
00:27:44,550 --> 00:27:41,830
segment Pat do you think part of the

610
00:27:46,650 --> 00:27:44,560
problem was because of the incompetence

611
00:27:48,930 --> 00:27:46,660
of the VA that we all know about were

612
00:27:52,380 --> 00:27:48,940
because of his UFO connection or both I

613
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:52,390
think it was both I think it at first so

614
00:27:57,840 --> 00:27:54,610
much of it could certainly you could

615
00:27:59,040 --> 00:27:57,850
point to just negligence called it

616
00:28:01,380 --> 00:27:59,050
nonfeasance

617
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:01,390
I didn't necessarily see any malfeasance

618
00:28:07,410 --> 00:28:04,690
or anything like that it's just typical

619
00:28:10,590 --> 00:28:07,420
government bureaucracy however as time

620
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:10,600
went on and certain problems continue to

621
00:28:16,770 --> 00:28:13,690
persist certain problems in getting

622
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:16,780
records and just the way the things were

623
00:28:22,380 --> 00:28:19,930
being handled it moves beyond just mere

624
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:22,390
left and right hands not knowing what

625
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:24,250
they were doing or negligence or

626
00:28:28,830 --> 00:28:25,930
whatever you want to call it although

627
00:28:31,230 --> 00:28:28,840
there was an element of both by a

628
00:28:34,110 --> 00:28:31,240
certain point it became clear there was

629
00:28:37,740 --> 00:28:34,120
something much more call it sinister if

630
00:28:40,620 --> 00:28:37,750
you like high pot and gorgs here I've

631
00:28:43,730 --> 00:28:40,630
got a question for you just on on the

632
00:28:47,550 --> 00:28:43,740
legal side of things did you research

633
00:28:50,370 --> 00:28:47,560
much you know legal precedent for cases

634
00:28:53,550 --> 00:28:50,380
of veterans who were having their

635
00:28:55,620 --> 00:28:53,560
medical records withheld where there are

636
00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:55,630
other similar cases you could look at

637
00:28:59,970 --> 00:28:57,490
and you know see what happened with

638
00:29:02,430 --> 00:28:59,980
these or was this quite an unusual case

639
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:02,440
I would say the latter and quite an

640
00:29:08,580 --> 00:29:05,530
unusual case the game plan all along was

641
00:29:11,790 --> 00:29:08,590
to give the government every opportunity

642
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:11,800
that we could in responding to written

643
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:14,890
requests to give us what we wanted which

644
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:16,930
was simply John Burroughs as medical

645
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:19,330
records anything else that would assist

646
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:23,410
us in providing or it's just a medical

647
00:29:28,380 --> 00:29:25,810
professional in treating them so we

648
00:29:30,390 --> 00:29:28,390
figured you know from the very beginning

649
00:29:32,220 --> 00:29:30,400
this is what we'll do we'll keep asking

650
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:32,230
and if they well if they keep denying

651
00:29:36,990 --> 00:29:34,450
then at some point after we've asked as

652
00:29:39,450 --> 00:29:37,000
many times as we could and still got

653
00:29:41,909 --> 00:29:39,460
nothing then we've got the case we need

654
00:29:44,010 --> 00:29:41,919
to go up against the government well and

655
00:29:45,570 --> 00:29:44,020
so they continue to do that and we were

656
00:29:46,980 --> 00:29:45,580
building our case all along in that

657
00:29:49,049 --> 00:29:46,990
direction it gets to a point where

658
00:29:52,620 --> 00:29:49,059
there's obvious stonewalling going on

659
00:29:54,900 --> 00:29:52,630
I'm sure that that's what it seems am

660
00:29:56,909 --> 00:29:54,910
John if I can bring you in here a bit

661
00:30:00,350 --> 00:29:56,919
quickly having been in the military

662
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:00,360
myself I know that there are medical

663
00:30:06,090 --> 00:30:03,130
classifications for fitness to serve in

664
00:30:08,820 --> 00:30:06,100
the military I was just wondering if at

665
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:08,830
the time or just after the Rendlesham

666
00:30:16,950 --> 00:30:11,890
incident was there any change to your

667
00:30:20,130 --> 00:30:16,960
medical fitness classification just post

668
00:30:22,169 --> 00:30:20,140
the event as in something something

669
00:30:24,419 --> 00:30:22,179
happened to change to downgrade you or

670
00:30:27,030 --> 00:30:24,429
or nothing happened what happened on

671
00:30:29,610 --> 00:30:27,040
that score okay it's pretty simple the

672
00:30:31,350 --> 00:30:29,620
condition I got I had it was diagnosed

673
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:31,360
right after the incident I could not

674
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:33,370
have gotten into the Air Force Worth and

675
00:30:38,700 --> 00:30:36,130
that was part of the initial evidence

676
00:30:40,409 --> 00:30:38,710
that was submitted that because couldn't

677
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:40,419
get on get our hands on the medical

678
00:30:46,230 --> 00:30:42,970
records I had a copy of my entry

679
00:30:47,730 --> 00:30:46,240
physical my exit physical in 1988 and

680
00:30:49,500 --> 00:30:47,740
when I came in I had a clean bill of

681
00:30:50,940 --> 00:30:49,510
health no heart issues nor anything and

682
00:30:53,430 --> 00:30:50,950
a matter of fact the condition that I

683
00:30:55,169 --> 00:30:53,440
was later diagnosed in the military with

684
00:30:57,060 --> 00:30:55,179
right after the incident would have

685
00:30:59,640 --> 00:30:57,070
disqualified me from coming in the

686
00:31:02,909 --> 00:30:59,650
military it was found shortly after the

687
00:31:05,370 --> 00:31:02,919
incident and it was it was very

688
00:31:06,810 --> 00:31:05,380
prevalent when the civilian doctor found

689
00:31:09,390 --> 00:31:06,820
it I happened to be home when I got I

690
00:31:11,100 --> 00:31:09,400
was continuing to be not feeling well

691
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:11,110
but I got really sick one particular

692
00:31:14,250 --> 00:31:12,850
time when I was home and I couldn't

693
00:31:17,100 --> 00:31:14,260
travel back and I had to go see a

694
00:31:18,930 --> 00:31:17,110
civilian doctor so from from that point

695
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:18,940
on shortly after the incident I was

696
00:31:21,570 --> 00:31:20,290
diagnosed with the heart issue to

697
00:31:24,030 --> 00:31:21,580
continue to get worse over the years

698
00:31:25,860 --> 00:31:24,040
what type of heart issue are we talking

699
00:31:28,350 --> 00:31:25,870
about we're talking about my heart

700
00:31:31,230 --> 00:31:28,360
mitral valve was damaged there's two

701
00:31:34,650 --> 00:31:31,240
leaflets and in the valve itself and

702
00:31:35,970 --> 00:31:34,660
both of them are damaged normally when

703
00:31:38,159 --> 00:31:35,980
there is an issue with the mitral valve

704
00:31:39,659 --> 00:31:38,169
though one valve and I call them front

705
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:39,669
and back because I can't I don't have

706
00:31:43,950 --> 00:31:41,650
the technical name for the front one is

707
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:43,960
the one it will show damage which it did

708
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:45,530
but the back one way

709
00:31:49,870 --> 00:31:47,570
they my civilian doctors didn't even

710
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:49,880
look at for whatever reason but I've

711
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:51,290
gotten different things from different

712
00:31:54,250 --> 00:31:52,610
people over the years saying they

713
00:31:56,590 --> 00:31:54,260
normally wouldn't just because that

714
00:31:58,600 --> 00:31:56,600
usually isn't a problem that particular

715
00:32:01,060 --> 00:31:58,610
leaflet was shredded it all leads back

716
00:32:03,700 --> 00:32:01,070
to radiation what caused it part if I

717
00:32:06,310 --> 00:32:03,710
can come back to you for a second did

718
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:06,320
the Veterans Administration at any time

719
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:09,650
their legal team did they ever try to

720
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:12,250
possibly attribute John's medical

721
00:32:19,450 --> 00:32:16,490
problems to anything else in his career

722
00:32:22,420 --> 00:32:19,460
military or otherwise you know try to

723
00:32:24,790 --> 00:32:22,430
steer the blame as it were away from the

724
00:32:27,490 --> 00:32:24,800
Rendlesham incident not after my

725
00:32:29,410 --> 00:32:27,500
involvement began in 2011 John you'd

726
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:29,420
have to answer those anything prior to

727
00:32:35,470 --> 00:32:33,290
that such nation no never a matter of

728
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:35,480
fact what they did do which we've kind

729
00:32:40,180 --> 00:32:37,970
of skirted around was when when we first

730
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:40,190
filed a claim okay it went in through

731
00:32:44,410 --> 00:32:42,770
center Kyle's office and they were the

732
00:32:47,020 --> 00:32:44,420
ones that came back and said my records

733
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:47,030
appear to be classified and what it came

734
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:48,770
down to was they deny my initial

735
00:32:53,530 --> 00:32:50,450
disability claim and this is a key to

736
00:32:56,290 --> 00:32:53,540
this going forward is that I wasn't in

737
00:32:57,730 --> 00:32:56,300
the Air Force yeah and that I did not

738
00:33:00,190 --> 00:32:57,740
have any medical records for the time

739
00:33:01,780 --> 00:33:00,200
frame from 79 to 82 which in fact our

740
00:33:04,060 --> 00:33:01,790
claim was based solely on the fact that

741
00:33:06,220 --> 00:33:04,070
I was injured in the line of duty that

742
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:06,230
it took place in Rendlesham forest you

743
00:33:11,380 --> 00:33:08,570
know in 1980 and it was from radiation

744
00:33:13,390 --> 00:33:11,390
damage and they had had these documents

745
00:33:14,830 --> 00:33:13,400
in front of him already in the first

746
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:14,840
place showing that the incident took

747
00:33:17,770 --> 00:33:16,010
place that I was there and everything

748
00:33:19,780 --> 00:33:17,780
else they chose to overlook him they

749
00:33:21,970 --> 00:33:19,790
chose to come back with the simple

750
00:33:23,350 --> 00:33:21,980
denial of this so and you weren't

751
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:23,360
injured so you weren't there so you

752
00:33:26,860 --> 00:33:24,730
couldn't have been damaged by radiation

753
00:33:29,710 --> 00:33:26,870
well if you were not in the Air Force

754
00:33:31,780 --> 00:33:29,720
where were you well that's it took a

755
00:33:33,580 --> 00:33:31,790
while but Senator McCain's office and

756
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:33,590
through some stuff I was able to do to

757
00:33:37,450 --> 00:33:35,570
around the Air Force which I understand

758
00:33:40,690 --> 00:33:37,460
how to get around them we were able to

759
00:33:43,660 --> 00:33:40,700
show an updated DD Form 214 but we have

760
00:33:46,390 --> 00:33:43,670
all their evidence it shows that they

761
00:33:47,770 --> 00:33:46,400
initially said I wasn't until 1982 that

762
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:47,780
was one of the first things that started

763
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:50,810
now let me clarify here the doctors

764
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:53,570
officially diagnosed you as having some

765
00:33:56,650 --> 00:33:55,850
sort of radiation poisoning to generate

766
00:33:58,210 --> 00:33:56,660
this heart condition

767
00:34:00,310 --> 00:33:58,220
we can't get

768
00:34:02,110 --> 00:34:00,320
the exact records from them they're

769
00:34:05,649 --> 00:34:02,120
still denying us access to my medical

770
00:34:07,930 --> 00:34:05,659
records and the final evaluation of why

771
00:34:10,089 --> 00:34:07,940
they refused to acknowledge in a matter

772
00:34:12,250 --> 00:34:10,099
of fact it was almost like when they

773
00:34:14,349 --> 00:34:12,260
gave this out then three weeks later I

774
00:34:16,869 --> 00:34:14,359
got a letter from him saying we had done

775
00:34:19,149 --> 00:34:16,879
a specific FOIA through senator McCain's

776
00:34:20,919 --> 00:34:19,159
office and it basically gave a one-line

777
00:34:23,349 --> 00:34:20,929
sense that they've released everything

778
00:34:25,569 --> 00:34:23,359
that they're going to release and in

779
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:25,579
fact that wasn't what the FOIA was about

780
00:34:29,260 --> 00:34:27,530
which is they violated federal law by

781
00:34:31,270 --> 00:34:29,270
not acknowledging exactly what the

782
00:34:32,710 --> 00:34:31,280
questions were in the FOIA and plus

783
00:34:34,450 --> 00:34:32,720
they're not going to release the case

784
00:34:36,639 --> 00:34:34,460
file Wyatt when they came to the final

785
00:34:39,159 --> 00:34:36,649
decision other than that that we do have

786
00:34:41,290 --> 00:34:39,169
evidence as far as through when they

787
00:34:43,569 --> 00:34:41,300
release the final stuff to us it shows

788
00:34:46,210 --> 00:34:43,579
you know that I've got the disability

789
00:34:48,730 --> 00:34:46,220
and the evidence considered which was

790
00:34:51,220 --> 00:34:48,740
the Rendlesham forest stuff which was

791
00:34:53,139 --> 00:34:51,230
what led back to me my first claim in

792
00:34:55,510 --> 00:34:53,149
the first of all what did you at any

793
00:34:57,190 --> 00:34:55,520
time try to just get an appointment with

794
00:34:59,950 --> 00:34:57,200
the VA to see a doctor and let him

795
00:35:01,780 --> 00:34:59,960
diagnose for his or herself what you

796
00:35:04,720 --> 00:35:01,790
were suffering from oh that's another

797
00:35:06,609 --> 00:35:04,730
whole long story gene how the patent was

798
00:35:08,319 --> 00:35:06,619
there for a lot of it with the surgery

799
00:35:10,540 --> 00:35:08,329
what was that with the doctors what they

800
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:10,550
were looking at the fact that some of

801
00:35:13,750 --> 00:35:12,050
the VA doctors can't even get into

802
00:35:15,550 --> 00:35:13,760
certain parts of my files they don't

803
00:35:17,380 --> 00:35:15,560
have the clearance or the fact that a

804
00:35:19,240 --> 00:35:17,390
lot of my files are locked down even

805
00:35:21,339 --> 00:35:19,250
during and after the surgery they're all

806
00:35:23,620 --> 00:35:21,349
in the Vista system with some of this

807
00:35:25,839 --> 00:35:23,630
stuff the mate the mains the easy stuff

808
00:35:27,309 --> 00:35:25,849
is all there doctors and everything the

809
00:35:29,829 --> 00:35:27,319
stuff that has to do with my heart and

810
00:35:32,740 --> 00:35:29,839
all that other stuff it all says it the

811
00:35:35,170 --> 00:35:32,750
doctors and all the diagnosis is in the

812
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:35,180
Vista system when I requested to get

813
00:35:40,630 --> 00:35:37,810
that stuff I was denied access to that

814
00:35:42,130 --> 00:35:40,640
does it help them to just take brand-new

815
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:42,140
tests and see what you're suffering from

816
00:35:46,599 --> 00:35:43,970
now rather than look at the history if

817
00:35:51,940 --> 00:35:46,609
you can't get it you can answer that

818
00:35:53,950 --> 00:35:51,950
your wife that's a good question but I I

819
00:35:55,420 --> 00:35:53,960
think the way I would answer that the

820
00:35:59,530 --> 00:35:55,430
most distinct answer would be the

821
00:36:03,130 --> 00:35:59,540
conversation I had which on cardiac the

822
00:36:05,260 --> 00:36:03,140
surgeon after after working he came in I

823
00:36:08,349 --> 00:36:05,270
think it was the next day into intensive

824
00:36:11,270 --> 00:36:08,359
care I asked him I said so what damaged

825
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:11,280
his heart he said I have no idea

826
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:14,410
if he didn't know I don't I don't know

827
00:36:19,730 --> 00:36:15,850
that there was any test that could be

828
00:36:23,730 --> 00:36:19,740
performed we did have assistance from

829
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:23,740
some others that had some knowledge of

830
00:36:29,370 --> 00:36:26,170
that sort of radiation and had written

831
00:36:33,150 --> 00:36:29,380
letters trying to let the VA doctors

832
00:36:35,310 --> 00:36:33,160
know that that's what it was that had

833
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:35,320
done so let's pause here and we'll

834
00:36:39,150 --> 00:36:36,010
continue

835
00:36:42,060 --> 00:36:39,160
Patrick fresh ganya joining us with John

836
00:36:49,710 --> 00:36:42,070
Burroughs Nick Pope with gene and gongs

837
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:49,720
Makai you're in the pot accustomed to

838
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you'll never forget a former US military

844
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intelligence officer is haunted by

845
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intense dreams about a beautiful woman

846
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pleading for his help after a terrible

847
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848
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849
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850
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851
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852
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899
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912
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913
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914
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this alert just came in this special

915
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announcement is for business owners and

916
00:40:09,140 --> 00:40:06,940
leaders of organizations who've been

917
00:40:11,700 --> 00:40:09,150
waiting for the right time to build

918
00:40:13,589 --> 00:40:11,710
general steel has made it impossible to

919
00:40:15,780 --> 00:40:13,599
wait any longer with rock-bottom prices

920
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:15,790
that could save you thousands that's

921
00:40:20,250 --> 00:40:18,130
right general steel America's leader in

922
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pre engineered structures is offering

923
00:40:24,599 --> 00:40:22,150
buildings at prices you will never see

924
00:40:27,720 --> 00:40:24,609
again don't miss these prices of 50 by

925
00:40:30,150 --> 00:40:27,730
100 for $35,000 you heard right that's

926
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:30,160
5000 square feet for $35,000

927
00:40:34,170 --> 00:40:31,930
manufacturers if you need a larger

928
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:34,180
building try a 100 by 100 commercial

929
00:40:36,220 --> 00:40:35,410
building for a hundred and twenty nine

930
00:40:37,599 --> 00:40:36,230
thousand

931
00:40:40,090 --> 00:40:37,609
you can't afford to rent with these

932
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:40,100
prices imagine a 70 by 100 foot church

933
00:40:44,410 --> 00:40:42,170
building for under 69 thousand dollars

934
00:40:46,690 --> 00:40:44,420
with the economy improving and interest

935
00:40:50,740 --> 00:40:46,700
rates still at historic lows you can't

936
00:40:54,490 --> 00:40:50,750
afford to wait so call 866 91 steel lock

937
00:40:57,070 --> 00:40:54,500
in your price now call 866 91 steel

938
00:41:03,280 --> 00:40:57,080
that's eight six six nine one seven

939
00:41:11,950 --> 00:41:03,290
eighty three thirty-five fresco fresco

940
00:41:14,710 --> 00:41:11,960
yeah fresco Nia Cameron from

941
00:41:24,730 --> 00:41:14,720
presidential UFO comm you're listening

942
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:24,740
to the Peres cast the gold standard we

943
00:41:29,590 --> 00:41:27,530
have Pat fresco Nia with Nick Pope and

944
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:29,600
John burrows we're talking about the

945
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:32,810
decision to cover Sean Burroughs get

946
00:41:38,260 --> 00:41:35,450
some coverage from the VA so he can get

947
00:41:40,900 --> 00:41:38,270
his treatment now I gather also John

948
00:41:42,580 --> 00:41:40,910
that getting this kind of treatment from

949
00:41:44,230 --> 00:41:42,590
a civilian doctor is pretty darn

950
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:44,240
expensive if you don't have coverage

951
00:41:49,330 --> 00:41:46,970
well I had medical coverage and the way

952
00:41:50,740 --> 00:41:49,340
this all started was that the civilian

953
00:41:52,180 --> 00:41:50,750
doctor could not figure out what was

954
00:41:53,980 --> 00:41:52,190
wrong with me in other words the

955
00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:53,990
symptoms were there I kept going into

956
00:41:58,690 --> 00:41:56,450
afib and congestive heart failure

957
00:42:00,970 --> 00:41:58,700
he ran quite a few tests to the point

958
00:42:03,970 --> 00:42:00,980
where all everything that would have led

959
00:42:05,590 --> 00:42:03,980
to me having these symptoms wasn't there

960
00:42:07,150 --> 00:42:05,600
in other words he ran through all the

961
00:42:08,950 --> 00:42:07,160
tests a matter of fact he wanted to do

962
00:42:11,170 --> 00:42:08,960
one more that the actual insurance

963
00:42:12,940 --> 00:42:11,180
company denied because everything

964
00:42:15,820 --> 00:42:12,950
leading up to that last test which was

965
00:42:18,310 --> 00:42:15,830
very expensive showed no signs of that

966
00:42:19,900 --> 00:42:18,320
so he was completely perplexed and the

967
00:42:22,240 --> 00:42:19,910
first students that it wasn't terrible

968
00:42:24,790 --> 00:42:22,250
the second one was worse what I put the

969
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:24,800
pacemaker defibrillator in the third one

970
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:29,570
was where I almost died so when did this

971
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:32,210
happen it started right after I returned

972
00:42:40,030 --> 00:42:37,130
from England in 2010 early 2011 and it

973
00:42:42,460 --> 00:42:40,040
went forward from there I mean the thing

974
00:42:44,380 --> 00:42:42,470
was at the time of my surgery they

975
00:42:46,599 --> 00:42:44,390
didn't even they didn't even rise when

976
00:42:49,029 --> 00:42:46,609
they have more data provided to VA and

977
00:42:50,319 --> 00:42:49,039
and a couple of other doctors

978
00:42:53,169 --> 00:42:50,329
we haven't been able to identify who

979
00:42:55,929 --> 00:42:53,179
they are um they had more data than most

980
00:42:57,309 --> 00:42:55,939
but they even hit when I first went in

981
00:42:59,949 --> 00:42:57,319
at first the surgeon thought well maybe

982
00:43:02,229 --> 00:42:59,959
we can bandit but then when he went in

983
00:43:03,969 --> 00:43:02,239
he said he like he said he's nothing in

984
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:03,979
any kind of damage like this as far as

985
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:07,130
it was extensive and he said I was close

986
00:43:12,069 --> 00:43:10,249
to failure and and even they couldn't

987
00:43:14,140 --> 00:43:12,079
even with the test that they had they

988
00:43:16,359 --> 00:43:14,150
couldn't realize how bad it was and you

989
00:43:18,429 --> 00:43:16,369
just don't see that kind of damage not

990
00:43:20,109 --> 00:43:18,439
especially at my age am i you know how

991
00:43:22,179 --> 00:43:20,119
healthy and everything else about me was

992
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:22,189
healthy all my heart every test they did

993
00:43:28,269 --> 00:43:24,410
my heart was healthy the only damage was

994
00:43:30,609 --> 00:43:28,279
from the actual valve damage creating

995
00:43:34,089 --> 00:43:30,619
all the damage John

996
00:43:37,900 --> 00:43:34,099
do we knew if Jim Penniston suffered any

997
00:43:39,159 --> 00:43:37,910
ill effects medical issues you need to

998
00:43:41,620 --> 00:43:39,169
read encounter and Rendlesham forest

999
00:43:44,019 --> 00:43:41,630
because I don't it's personal I don't

1000
00:43:46,390 --> 00:43:44,029
want to go into his issues you know and

1001
00:43:47,949 --> 00:43:46,400
he actually at the beginning was on

1002
00:43:50,199 --> 00:43:47,959
board with this and then for whatever

1003
00:43:52,380 --> 00:43:50,209
reason we don't even know why he dropped

1004
00:43:54,909 --> 00:43:52,390
out of it pretty quickly after we

1005
00:43:56,799 --> 00:43:54,919
finished his citizens hearing and his

1006
00:43:58,719 --> 00:43:56,809
only comment that he's made publicly was

1007
00:44:00,429 --> 00:43:58,729
that he had some other documents that he

1008
00:44:02,429 --> 00:44:00,439
held back that he turned in to the VA

1009
00:44:05,469 --> 00:44:02,439
and the VA was taking care of the issues

1010
00:44:08,559 --> 00:44:05,479
so that's the best I can go in on what

1011
00:44:10,299 --> 00:44:08,569
Jim's medical issues work sure so at

1012
00:44:12,309 --> 00:44:10,309
this particular point in time John

1013
00:44:13,989 --> 00:44:12,319
what's the stay of your health have

1014
00:44:16,899 --> 00:44:13,999
these issues been resolved by the

1015
00:44:18,399 --> 00:44:16,909
surgeries you've had well the result in

1016
00:44:20,589 --> 00:44:18,409
the fact that my heart is getting

1017
00:44:23,739 --> 00:44:20,599
stronger and I'm getting better yes but

1018
00:44:26,049 --> 00:44:23,749
the damage is severe I mean my fracture

1019
00:44:27,819 --> 00:44:26,059
rate is very low compared to what's

1020
00:44:29,679 --> 00:44:27,829
normal in the 30s you should be up in

1021
00:44:32,199 --> 00:44:29,689
the 50s I have a pacemaker defibrillator

1022
00:44:34,029 --> 00:44:32,209
I have a mechanical valve in my heart

1023
00:44:36,789 --> 00:44:34,039
and my heart had quite a bit of damage

1024
00:44:38,799 --> 00:44:36,799
that they just not took another test to

1025
00:44:40,679 --> 00:44:38,809
see how much it's repaired itself but I

1026
00:44:43,299 --> 00:44:40,689
will not have access to that either

1027
00:44:45,370 --> 00:44:43,309
Patrick let's get back to you and what

1028
00:44:46,989 --> 00:44:45,380
you pursued here now obviously you

1029
00:44:49,329 --> 00:44:46,999
didn't go into court for this did you

1030
00:44:52,779 --> 00:44:49,339
did you just basically reach a

1031
00:44:58,749 --> 00:44:52,789
settlement that right I never had to go

1032
00:45:01,539 --> 00:44:58,759
to court for any time which is good but

1033
00:45:02,779 --> 00:45:01,549
we were prepared and getting you know

1034
00:45:04,729 --> 00:45:02,789
getting in position if

1035
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:04,739
is what it was going to take to do sir

1036
00:45:10,069 --> 00:45:08,249
and John McCain singer McCain's office

1037
00:45:13,069 --> 00:45:10,079
well you know senator Kyle had tried to

1038
00:45:15,109 --> 00:45:13,079
help us albeit he was leaving office and

1039
00:45:17,509 --> 00:45:15,119
I think we only had him on the case for

1040
00:45:20,479 --> 00:45:17,519
about a year was that why John so he

1041
00:45:25,069 --> 00:45:20,489
left he was unable to do anything and

1042
00:45:27,529 --> 00:45:25,079
then Senator McCain got on board and all

1043
00:45:29,599 --> 00:45:27,539
along we knew that if the US senator

1044
00:45:33,049 --> 00:45:29,609
could not shake anything was from this

1045
00:45:36,169 --> 00:45:33,059
tree then we were ready to go forward in

1046
00:45:38,630 --> 00:45:36,179
court now is there a written settlement

1047
00:45:39,669 --> 00:45:38,640
or agreement with the government over

1048
00:45:43,159 --> 00:45:39,679
this issue

1049
00:45:48,620 --> 00:45:43,169
they issued a letter to the senator

1050
00:45:50,689 --> 00:45:48,630
about the case so yes there is does that

1051
00:45:53,509 --> 00:45:50,699
letter say anything specifically about

1052
00:45:55,909 --> 00:45:53,519
the Rendlesham encounter UFOs things

1053
00:45:59,809 --> 00:45:55,919
like that is just strictly about his

1054
00:46:04,279 --> 00:45:59,819
treatment no no no he does include that

1055
00:46:06,739 --> 00:46:04,289
it includes there's a page of that that

1056
00:46:09,799 --> 00:46:06,749
includes the evidence that lists the

1057
00:46:12,079 --> 00:46:09,809
evidence that was considered in coming

1058
00:46:13,729 --> 00:46:12,089
to the conclusion that John needed them

1059
00:46:17,870 --> 00:46:13,739
to be taken care of

1060
00:46:20,299 --> 00:46:17,880
by them and listed among the items on

1061
00:46:23,659 --> 00:46:20,309
that page or documents that John had

1062
00:46:25,729 --> 00:46:23,669
provided to them regarding the

1063
00:46:29,449 --> 00:46:25,739
Rendlesham forest incident and it is so

1064
00:46:32,659 --> 00:46:29,459
named in that on that page specifically

1065
00:46:35,659 --> 00:46:32,669
so therefore you conclude on the basis

1066
00:46:40,189 --> 00:46:35,669
of that that they're acknowledging the

1067
00:46:43,819 --> 00:46:40,199
existence of UFOs yes and right away I'm

1068
00:46:46,189 --> 00:46:43,829
gonna have to tell you John had referred

1069
00:46:49,249 --> 00:46:46,199
to it earlier this goes back to Nick and

1070
00:46:52,969 --> 00:46:49,259
what he had done in the release of that

1071
00:46:54,499 --> 00:46:52,979
report him I believe it was 2006 but for

1072
00:46:57,380 --> 00:46:54,509
that it wouldn't have been included in

1073
00:47:02,120 --> 00:46:57,390
this document Nick would you like to add

1074
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:02,130
to that yes there were two statements

1075
00:47:08,539 --> 00:47:05,249
which I think were particularly helpful

1076
00:47:11,449 --> 00:47:08,549
and I mean let's not forget that before

1077
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:11,459
I go into those that let's not forget

1078
00:47:18,820 --> 00:47:14,810
how high up the tree this has gone

1079
00:47:20,410 --> 00:47:18,830
not only was and John and Pat will I'm

1080
00:47:23,470 --> 00:47:20,420
sure come on to speak about this in more

1081
00:47:26,170 --> 00:47:23,480
detail not only was Senator Kyl and his

1082
00:47:29,380 --> 00:47:26,180
office involved but Senator McCain and

1083
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:29,390
his office involved much more recently

1084
00:47:35,860 --> 00:47:33,410
added to the fact that six former

1085
00:47:37,750 --> 00:47:35,870
members of Congress wrote not just to

1086
00:47:39,730 --> 00:47:37,760
the Secretary of the VA but to the

1087
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:39,740
President of the United States about

1088
00:47:44,590 --> 00:47:42,530
this so this is this has been considered

1089
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:44,600
at the highest level turning to your

1090
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:47,810
specific question the two pieces of

1091
00:47:53,290 --> 00:47:50,410
evidence which really I think helped

1092
00:47:54,940 --> 00:47:53,300
unlock this given of course that for

1093
00:47:58,200 --> 00:47:54,950
years all this was denied were two

1094
00:48:04,210 --> 00:47:58,210
things firstly a Ministry of Defense

1095
00:48:05,860 --> 00:48:04,220
document dated February 23rd 1981 which

1096
00:48:09,130 --> 00:48:05,870
was the Defense Intelligence staff

1097
00:48:12,010 --> 00:48:09,140
assessment of the radiation levels at

1098
00:48:15,580 --> 00:48:12,020
the landing site and the critical phrase

1099
00:48:19,390 --> 00:48:15,590
there was that it said significantly

1100
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:19,400
higher than the average background and

1101
00:48:24,850 --> 00:48:22,130
this of course goes back to what Colonel

1102
00:48:27,790 --> 00:48:24,860
Holt put in his memo when Monroe nevels

1103
00:48:29,770 --> 00:48:27,800
the disaster preparedness officer assess

1104
00:48:32,770 --> 00:48:29,780
the landing site with a Geiger counter

1105
00:48:36,540 --> 00:48:32,780
but the real smoking gun what really

1106
00:48:40,060 --> 00:48:36,550
unlock this I think is a an obscure

1107
00:48:42,130 --> 00:48:40,070
sentence from project condign x' final

1108
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:42,140
report bear in mind this document was

1109
00:48:47,650 --> 00:48:45,530
classified secret UK eyes only and it

1110
00:48:49,750 --> 00:48:47,660
was tucked away it's a classic case of

1111
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:49,760
the best place to hide a book is in a

1112
00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:53,090
library and the quote was as follows the

1113
00:48:58,750 --> 00:48:55,970
well reported Rendlesham forest slash

1114
00:49:00,610 --> 00:48:58,760
Bentwaters event is an example where it

1115
00:49:03,820 --> 00:49:00,620
might be postulated that several

1116
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:03,830
observers were probably exposed to you

1117
00:49:10,990 --> 00:49:07,490
AP radiation for longer than you AP

1118
00:49:13,570 --> 00:49:11,000
citing periods there may be other cases

1119
00:49:15,670 --> 00:49:13,580
which remain unreported it's clear that

1120
00:49:17,740 --> 00:49:15,680
the recipients of these effects are not

1121
00:49:19,450 --> 00:49:17,750
aware that their behavior / perception

1122
00:49:23,070 --> 00:49:19,460
of what they are observing is being

1123
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:23,080
modified so basically bottom line a

1124
00:49:27,430 --> 00:49:26,450
highly classified intelligence study on

1125
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:27,440
UFOs

1126
00:49:34,690 --> 00:49:30,650
yeah these guys were irradiated and that

1127
00:49:36,579 --> 00:49:34,700
I think is what gave Pat and John the

1128
00:49:37,089 --> 00:49:36,589
ammunition to say hey you can deny all

1129
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:37,099
your life

1130
00:49:42,430 --> 00:49:39,290
we got a government document here that

1131
00:49:45,370 --> 00:49:42,440
says these people were irradiated as a

1132
00:49:48,940 --> 00:49:45,380
direct result of encountering whatever

1133
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:48,950
it is they encountered Patrick from

1134
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:51,170
beginning to end how long did this

1135
00:49:57,280 --> 00:49:54,650
process take well I can only tell you

1136
00:50:00,160 --> 00:49:57,290
from the time I joined the effort that

1137
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:00,170
would be since 2011 so essentially four

1138
00:50:06,309 --> 00:50:03,650
years that John was John was working on

1139
00:50:10,359 --> 00:50:06,319
this long before so he would have to

1140
00:50:12,460 --> 00:50:10,369
tell you how long before them during the

1141
00:50:15,010 --> 00:50:12,470
course of this did you hear of any other

1142
00:50:17,859 --> 00:50:15,020
cases involving people possibly being

1143
00:50:21,550 --> 00:50:17,869
injured as the result of a UFO sighting

1144
00:50:24,099 --> 00:50:21,560
oh I've heard many I've had at this

1145
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:24,109
point at the very least

1146
00:50:31,420 --> 00:50:26,810
several dozen if not well over a hundred

1147
00:50:33,730 --> 00:50:31,430
people contact me from across the

1148
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:33,740
country that have had different

1149
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:36,890
encounters and then reported injuries

1150
00:50:43,270 --> 00:50:39,410
their phone so obviously this is not

1151
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:43,280
something an isolated case it's a

1152
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:44,810
different case in the sense that it's

1153
00:50:49,809 --> 00:50:47,810
had publicity it has and it's the

1154
00:50:52,270 --> 00:50:49,819
Renison for its incident of course but

1155
00:50:56,079 --> 00:50:52,280
there are others out there without a

1156
00:50:59,440 --> 00:50:56,089
doubt and we'll have you answer this in

1157
00:51:02,230 --> 00:50:59,450
our next segment Pat but do you plan

1158
00:51:04,300 --> 00:51:02,240
perhaps on pursuing any more cases now

1159
00:51:07,660 --> 00:51:04,310
that you've had this victory in hand

1160
00:51:12,190 --> 00:51:07,670
assessing the fact that we have a UFO

1161
00:51:13,300 --> 00:51:12,200
connection with radiation injury we're

1162
00:51:16,270 --> 00:51:13,310
gonna ask you that in our next segment

1163
00:51:19,150 --> 00:51:16,280
we're talking in Nick Pope we're talking

1164
00:51:22,300 --> 00:51:19,160
to John burrows we have Patrick fresco

1165
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:22,310
Nia he's an attorney who defended John

1166
00:51:28,690 --> 00:51:25,970
in a successful result to get coverage

1167
00:51:31,530 --> 00:51:28,700
from the VA Jean and GOG schmack I

1168
00:51:37,500 --> 00:51:31,540
you're in the podcast

1169
00:51:41,130 --> 00:51:37,510
[Music]

1170
00:51:44,490 --> 00:51:41,140
we are the premier independent talk

1171
00:51:47,550 --> 00:51:44,500
radio network the genesis communications

1172
00:51:49,620 --> 00:51:47,560
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1173
00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:49,630
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1174
00:51:54,090 --> 00:51:51,970
on to guns ad comm I got to tell you I

1175
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didn't want to buy any more firearms I

1176
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didn't want a paperwork trail headed

1177
00:52:00,030 --> 00:51:57,970
back to Big Brother I want a hundred

1178
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percent privacy I want to be an

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1180
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1181
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1182
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ghosts ar-15 guns a t.com I got a couple

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1185
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1186
00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:20,830
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1187
00:52:24,240 --> 00:52:22,330
investment advisers won't talk about

1188
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1189
00:52:27,810 --> 00:52:26,140
nineteen eighty six yet the financial

1190
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1191
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1192
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1198
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1199
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1202
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1204
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1206
00:54:14,349 --> 00:54:12,390
here's gene Steinberg a little bit later

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help support the show cogs Makai is our

1222
00:54:58,429 --> 00:54:55,349
guest co-host this week we have Patrick

1223
00:55:02,689 --> 00:54:58,439
Frisco Nia an attorney who helped defend

1224
00:55:05,599 --> 00:55:02,699
John burrows to get his coverage from

1225
00:55:08,150 --> 00:55:05,609
the VA we have Nick Pope joining us GOG

1226
00:55:11,299 --> 00:55:08,160
she had a question or comment my comment

1227
00:55:13,699 --> 00:55:11,309
was now that there has been this in a

1228
00:55:16,959 --> 00:55:13,709
decision that John's gonna be able to

1229
00:55:19,969 --> 00:55:16,969
get his disability into to the radiation

1230
00:55:20,660 --> 00:55:19,979
damage to his heart from the Rendlesham

1231
00:55:23,630 --> 00:55:20,670
case

1232
00:55:26,900 --> 00:55:23,640
I wonder what some of the more

1233
00:55:29,959 --> 00:55:26,910
well-known rendus Rendlesham skeptics

1234
00:55:32,269 --> 00:55:29,969
will be seeing now are they going to

1235
00:55:35,150 --> 00:55:32,279
blame the radiation on the Orford ness

1236
00:55:37,279 --> 00:55:35,160
lighthouse or you know how they how is

1237
00:55:39,979 --> 00:55:37,289
that gonna fit into their world view

1238
00:55:42,829 --> 00:55:39,989
about Rendlesham you want to grab that

1239
00:55:44,140 --> 00:55:42,839
way well i don't know how they'll deal

1240
00:55:45,819 --> 00:55:44,150
with that

1241
00:55:48,190 --> 00:55:45,829
they all yeah I think there are a couple

1242
00:55:50,620 --> 00:55:48,200
of potential strategies first they'll

1243
00:55:54,220 --> 00:55:50,630
just ignore it it's it's kind of it's a

1244
00:55:56,440 --> 00:55:54,230
to difficult question second they'll try

1245
00:55:59,170 --> 00:55:56,450
and spin it somehow that maybe there

1246
00:56:01,720 --> 00:55:59,180
were some other I I don't know prosaic

1247
00:56:03,700 --> 00:56:01,730
cause of this but I mean I think the

1248
00:56:05,710 --> 00:56:03,710
response to all of that is don't take

1249
00:56:08,220 --> 00:56:05,720
our word for it look at the Ministry of

1250
00:56:12,250 --> 00:56:08,230
Defense's own documents here there's a

1251
00:56:15,099 --> 00:56:12,260
verifiable audit trail of formerly

1252
00:56:18,069 --> 00:56:15,109
classified papers the provenance of

1253
00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:18,079
which is not disputed which step mean by

1254
00:56:21,819 --> 00:56:19,970
step take you through what happens so

1255
00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:21,829
what are they gonna say I don't know but

1256
00:56:26,829 --> 00:56:25,130
I think it's it's gonna be interesting

1257
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:26,839
Patrick let me ask you a quick question

1258
00:56:31,660 --> 00:56:28,970
here you've heard about other instances

1259
00:56:33,789 --> 00:56:31,670
possibly involving illnesses or injuries

1260
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:33,799
sustained in connection with UFOs do you

1261
00:56:39,279 --> 00:56:36,410
plan to take on any more cases well

1262
00:56:42,700 --> 00:56:39,289
that's that's another good question Jane

1263
00:56:45,010 --> 00:56:42,710
I I'm not gonna say no to that I think

1264
00:56:47,799 --> 00:56:45,020
it's by founder came across one that

1265
00:56:50,920 --> 00:56:47,809
particularly struck me as someone has

1266
00:56:53,650 --> 00:56:50,930
been railroaded again by the DEA or the

1267
00:56:57,430 --> 00:56:53,660
government I probably would be swayed to

1268
00:56:59,829 --> 00:56:57,440
do so there are several several

1269
00:57:02,440 --> 00:56:59,839
varieties of injuries I've been

1270
00:57:05,140 --> 00:57:02,450
contacted about Nani quite as specific

1271
00:57:09,930 --> 00:57:05,150
as John's I don't believe but some

1272
00:57:12,339 --> 00:57:09,940
similar but I very well could yes

1273
00:57:14,799 --> 00:57:12,349
obviously it's not a case where you get

1274
00:57:16,900 --> 00:57:14,809
a lot of return in terms of financial

1275
00:57:20,620 --> 00:57:16,910
rewards it's not like a simple accident

1276
00:57:24,370 --> 00:57:20,630
case so is this well just giving up your

1277
00:57:26,410 --> 00:57:24,380
time to do it it is and that's why I

1278
00:57:28,690 --> 00:57:26,420
wouldn't say I'm exuberant and sign that

1279
00:57:32,470 --> 00:57:28,700
I was just pregnant in case that might

1280
00:57:35,890 --> 00:57:32,480
come my wife I've been practicing law

1281
00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:35,900
almost 25 years and this is not a case

1282
00:57:42,010 --> 00:57:38,210
that there was any money involved or

1283
00:57:44,079 --> 00:57:42,020
paid to me but at the same time it has

1284
00:57:46,299 --> 00:57:44,089
without a doubt been the most satisfying

1285
00:57:48,700 --> 00:57:46,309
case at that quarter sensitive in

1286
00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:48,710
practice there is there's a lot of

1287
00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:51,770
return if you go in that regard and

1288
00:57:55,510 --> 00:57:53,690
handling something like this if you can

1289
00:57:57,850 --> 00:57:55,520
do it you know because it does take some

1290
00:57:59,260 --> 00:57:57,860
time what's for sure

1291
00:58:02,800 --> 00:57:59,270
very briefly here what kind of law do

1292
00:58:05,500 --> 00:58:02,810
you practice well I began my career as a

1293
00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:05,510
public defender doing criminal defense

1294
00:58:10,900 --> 00:58:08,690
work for the county and which I've

1295
00:58:14,820 --> 00:58:10,910
resided and then later I would move into

1296
00:58:17,260 --> 00:58:14,830
consumer protection work which is the

1297
00:58:19,690 --> 00:58:17,270
prosecuting cases for the consumer

1298
00:58:22,330 --> 00:58:19,700
against abuses by banks and credit card

1299
00:58:29,980 --> 00:58:22,340
companies well that's gotta keep you

1300
00:58:32,230 --> 00:58:29,990
busy so with this information this

1301
00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:32,240
evidence Nick Pope where do you take

1302
00:58:38,050 --> 00:58:34,130
this now that you have what looks like

1303
00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:38,060
an acknowledgement that someone was

1304
00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:40,850
injured by a UFO how do you take that

1305
00:58:47,860 --> 00:58:44,210
and expand it to getting to a better

1306
00:58:50,770 --> 00:58:47,870
conclusion about UFOs well I think one

1307
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:50,780
way to take this forward is now to try

1308
00:58:57,160 --> 00:58:53,210
to engage with the mainstream media

1309
00:59:01,240 --> 00:58:57,170
about this and say there are a lot of

1310
00:59:03,670 --> 00:59:01,250
silly seas and stories about UFOs kind

1311
00:59:07,570 --> 00:59:03,680
of flying around but here's something

1312
00:59:12,730 --> 00:59:07,580
tangible and verifiable here's something

1313
00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:12,740
which really is yeah smoking gun on on

1314
00:59:19,870 --> 00:59:16,370
this subject in in a field where there

1315
00:59:22,630 --> 00:59:19,880
are so many false or exaggerated claims

1316
00:59:24,040 --> 00:59:22,640
here's something absolutely tangible

1317
00:59:26,410 --> 00:59:24,050
that you can put your hand on so I think

1318
00:59:28,300 --> 00:59:26,420
I think one way to take this forward

1319
00:59:31,210 --> 00:59:28,310
would be as I say to engage with the

1320
00:59:34,510 --> 00:59:31,220
mainstream media - to get the the real

1321
00:59:37,330 --> 00:59:34,520
big players involved in this and to say

1322
00:59:40,000 --> 00:59:37,340
to people like we're not trying to yeah

1323
00:59:42,280 --> 00:59:40,010
kind of present any definitive

1324
00:59:44,500 --> 00:59:42,290
explanation as to the true nature of the

1325
00:59:47,740 --> 00:59:44,510
UFO phenomenon we don't know necessarily

1326
00:59:50,470 --> 00:59:47,750
what we are dealing with here but we are

1327
00:59:53,110 --> 00:59:50,480
dealing with something that has real

1328
00:59:56,080 --> 00:59:53,120
tangible and sometimes harmful effects

1329
00:59:57,610 --> 00:59:56,090
on people and therefore don't let's

1330
01:00:00,250 --> 00:59:57,620
throw out the baby with the bathwater

1331
01:00:02,620 --> 01:00:00,260
yes there are some hoaxes yes there are

1332
01:00:05,290 --> 01:00:02,630
some kind of you have fairly crazy

1333
01:00:08,350 --> 01:00:05,300
people involved in this field but strip

1334
01:00:11,290 --> 01:00:08,360
that away and there is a core phenomenon

1335
01:00:12,940 --> 01:00:11,300
here which is very real and we now have

1336
01:00:14,650 --> 01:00:12,950
the verifiable proof that both the

1337
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:14,660
British and the American government have

1338
01:00:19,930 --> 01:00:17,450
accepted this I mean this is not people

1339
01:00:21,850 --> 01:00:19,940
people in the UFO field and maybe we'll

1340
01:00:24,160 --> 01:00:21,860
get on to talk about this in more detail

1341
01:00:27,490 --> 01:00:24,170
but people in the UFO field often talk

1342
01:00:29,140 --> 01:00:27,500
about disclosure with a with a big D and

1343
01:00:31,690 --> 01:00:29,150
they have this kind of stereotypical

1344
01:00:33,910 --> 01:00:31,700
view that the president is going to come

1345
01:00:35,920 --> 01:00:33,920
on TV and you know he's gonna say my

1346
01:00:37,750 --> 01:00:35,930
prayer fellow Americans people the world

1347
01:00:40,180 --> 01:00:37,760
we're not alone there's this kind of

1348
01:00:41,740 --> 01:00:40,190
very clichéd and naive idea of what its

1349
01:00:44,200 --> 01:00:41,750
gonna look like it's not gonna look like

1350
01:00:46,450 --> 01:00:44,210
that it's gonna more like what's just

1351
01:00:50,620 --> 01:00:46,460
happened in other words it's

1352
01:00:52,780 --> 01:00:50,630
confirmation of sorts but you know no

1353
01:00:54,250 --> 01:00:52,790
government can turn around and say hey

1354
01:00:56,950 --> 01:00:54,260
this is real and we'd like to everyone

1355
01:01:00,340 --> 01:00:56,960
that they kind of nearly 70 years or

1356
01:01:02,140 --> 01:01:00,350
whatever but what you will if those

1357
01:01:04,840 --> 01:01:02,150
people who know how to read government

1358
01:01:06,610 --> 01:01:04,850
and how they they kind of play these

1359
01:01:09,040 --> 01:01:06,620
things this is this is exactly what's

1360
01:01:12,370 --> 01:01:09,050
happening it's it's disclosure with a

1361
01:01:14,620 --> 01:01:12,380
little D not a Big D and and if indeed

1362
01:01:17,110 --> 01:01:14,630
it's disclosure at all and as I say

1363
01:01:22,330 --> 01:01:17,120
maybe confirmation is is a more accurate

1364
01:01:26,070 --> 01:01:22,340
term Nick what what media interest has

1365
01:01:29,170 --> 01:01:26,080
have you had just regarding this

1366
01:01:30,820 --> 01:01:29,180
settlement with John Boehner's well it's

1367
01:01:33,460 --> 01:01:30,830
very early days I mean this is literally

1368
01:01:36,820 --> 01:01:33,470
you know something which is has just

1369
01:01:40,420 --> 01:01:36,830
really broken in in the the last few

1370
01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:40,430
days so I have not kind of really given

1371
01:01:44,320 --> 01:01:42,530
this too much thought yet and of course

1372
01:01:47,650 --> 01:01:44,330
it's it's a difficult situation in a

1373
01:01:50,200 --> 01:01:47,660
sense I do a lot of work with the media

1374
01:01:51,910 --> 01:01:50,210
but this is don't people shouldn't

1375
01:01:53,500 --> 01:01:51,920
forget you know in all of this you know

1376
01:01:54,910 --> 01:01:53,510
there's a lot of people telling John you

1377
01:01:56,920 --> 01:01:54,920
know this is what you should do this is

1378
01:02:00,700 --> 01:01:56,930
this is a deeply personal medical

1379
01:02:03,130 --> 01:02:00,710
information to John there may be

1380
01:02:06,760 --> 01:02:03,140
outstanding legal issues to which Pat

1381
01:02:08,560 --> 01:02:06,770
can advise on so I think yeah I've got

1382
01:02:10,660 --> 01:02:08,570
my own ideas of course I mean we'd all

1383
01:02:13,090 --> 01:02:10,670
like to see this in the The Times The

1384
01:02:15,010 --> 01:02:13,100
Post Good Morning America whatever but

1385
01:02:18,010 --> 01:02:15,020
you know that's not my call that's

1386
01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:18,020
that's really really for John to decide

1387
01:02:22,750 --> 01:02:20,930
how much or how little of this he he

1388
01:02:24,790 --> 01:02:22,760
wants to come out with I mean John's

1389
01:02:27,220 --> 01:02:24,800
bottom line here

1390
01:02:28,870 --> 01:02:27,230
was not and sorry John speaking for you

1391
01:02:31,300 --> 01:02:28,880
like this correct me if I'm wrong on any

1392
01:02:33,430 --> 01:02:31,310
of this but John's bottom line here was

1393
01:02:35,320 --> 01:02:33,440
not to prove anything or not prove

1394
01:02:37,590 --> 01:02:35,330
anything to the UFO community it was to

1395
01:02:41,200 --> 01:02:37,600
to kind of get his medical situation

1396
01:02:42,550 --> 01:02:41,210
resolved and he as a courtesy because he

1397
01:02:44,200 --> 01:02:42,560
knows a lot of people in the UFO

1398
01:02:46,540 --> 01:02:44,210
community are interested in this and

1399
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:46,550
following it very closely has has told

1400
01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:48,890
people what's what's going on but it's

1401
01:02:53,710 --> 01:02:51,530
really his call as to to how much or how

1402
01:02:56,770 --> 01:02:53,720
little he wants to do with all this is

1403
01:02:59,980 --> 01:02:56,780
that fair yeah that's that's fair I mean

1404
01:03:01,630 --> 01:02:59,990
we want public with this because it was

1405
01:03:04,090 --> 01:03:01,640
kept quiet for a while behind the scenes

1406
01:03:06,460 --> 01:03:04,100
and it really came to light when we did

1407
01:03:11,200 --> 01:03:06,470
the disclosure hearings you know in DC

1408
01:03:13,030 --> 01:03:11,210
and it was it was neat to see that six I

1409
01:03:14,740 --> 01:03:13,040
believe was six maybe it was more I

1410
01:03:16,240 --> 01:03:14,750
think it was six though members of X

1411
01:03:19,240 --> 01:03:16,250
members of Congress were so moved by

1412
01:03:22,060 --> 01:03:19,250
this so upset by this that they actually

1413
01:03:24,160 --> 01:03:22,070
had Pat draft a letter they signed it

1414
01:03:25,810 --> 01:03:24,170
and it went to the president well told

1415
01:03:28,510 --> 01:03:25,820
by the way the letter in the backup of

1416
01:03:30,220 --> 01:03:28,520
my case file so the president somewhere

1417
01:03:32,170 --> 01:03:30,230
in the president office of the president

1418
01:03:34,270 --> 01:03:32,180
I today received this acknowledged it

1419
01:03:36,250 --> 01:03:34,280
and sent it back to the VA now that's

1420
01:03:38,980 --> 01:03:36,260
more about that in a moment we have John

1421
01:03:41,890 --> 01:03:38,990
Burroughs Nick Pope Patrick fresh Konya

1422
01:03:46,740 --> 01:03:41,900
more to come with Gene and God's Makai

1423
01:03:52,690 --> 01:03:50,230
do you need a website well you can get a

1424
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1425
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01:04:13,270 --> 01:04:10,840
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1433
01:04:18,910 --> 01:04:16,420
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1434
01:04:20,440 --> 01:04:18,920
first game attack of the rock codes and

1435
01:04:22,300 --> 01:04:20,450
it was a critically acclaimed success

1436
01:04:24,070 --> 01:04:22,310
and now there's the coming of the

1437
01:04:26,380 --> 01:04:24,080
protectors a former military

1438
01:04:28,600 --> 01:04:26,390
intelligence man is contacted by a space

1439
01:04:31,210 --> 01:04:28,610
woman in a dream a dream that turns out

1440
01:04:32,710 --> 01:04:31,220
to be a nightmare because evil forces on

1441
01:04:33,490 --> 01:04:32,720
our distant planet are planning to

1442
01:04:36,130 --> 01:04:33,500
conquer the earth

1443
01:04:38,590 --> 01:04:36,140
this is gripping science fiction of the

1444
01:04:40,660 --> 01:04:38,600
classic kind attack of the rock codes

1445
01:04:43,240 --> 01:04:40,670
and the coming of the protectors find

1446
01:04:45,280 --> 01:04:43,250
out more at Rocko its calm that's rock

1447
01:04:48,070 --> 01:04:45,290
oh it's our Ock oids

1448
01:04:49,390 --> 01:04:48,080
dot-com have you ever felt like the

1449
01:04:51,130 --> 01:04:49,400
United States government knows way too

1450
01:04:53,230 --> 01:04:51,140
much about your financial affairs I

1451
01:04:54,970 --> 01:04:53,240
continue to hear stories about property

1452
01:04:57,250 --> 01:04:54,980
seizures frozen bank accounts

1453
01:04:58,990 --> 01:04:57,260
confiscation of stocks and bonds it

1454
01:05:00,550 --> 01:04:59,000
makes me wonder if the US citizen will

1455
01:05:02,700 --> 01:05:00,560
ever again have the right to life

1456
01:05:04,810 --> 01:05:02,710
liberty and the pursuit of happiness

1457
01:05:06,570 --> 01:05:04,820
unfortunately with the drug and money

1458
01:05:09,520 --> 01:05:06,580
laundering Act the IRS Revenue Ruling

1459
01:05:10,680 --> 01:05:09,530
60-45 of 1984 and the trading with the

1460
01:05:13,780 --> 01:05:10,690
enemy Act in Franklin D Roosevelt

1461
01:05:15,550 --> 01:05:13,790
executive order of 1933 some precious

1462
01:05:17,740 --> 01:05:15,560
metal holdings are subject to government

1463
01:05:19,180 --> 01:05:17,750
intervention for this reason Midas

1464
01:05:20,920 --> 01:05:19,190
Resources has prepared a report

1465
01:05:22,840 --> 01:05:20,930
explaining the boundaries of trading

1466
01:05:24,700 --> 01:05:22,850
precious metals privately whether if you

1467
01:05:26,500 --> 01:05:24,710
have any intention of trading with Midas

1468
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:26,510
resources or not I've instructed my

1469
01:05:34,970 --> 01:05:28,010
representatives to give this report out

1470
01:05:51,330 --> 01:05:48,260
[Music]

1471
01:05:53,700 --> 01:05:51,340
what good is a big berkey water filter

1472
01:05:56,040 --> 01:05:53,710
we get that question a lot here at big

1473
01:05:58,320 --> 01:05:56,050
berkey water filters calm and in a word

1474
01:06:00,630 --> 01:05:58,330
the answer is protection protection from

1475
01:06:03,120 --> 01:06:00,640
water main breaks ecoli contamination

1476
01:06:05,640 --> 01:06:03,130
environmental chemical spills pesticide

1477
01:06:07,980 --> 01:06:05,650
runoff chlorine taste and smell and all

1478
01:06:09,810 --> 01:06:07,990
forms of fluoride plus big berkey water

1479
01:06:11,670 --> 01:06:09,820
filters are the original gravity water

1480
01:06:14,040 --> 01:06:11,680
filter system and most trusted on the

1481
01:06:16,890 --> 01:06:14,050
market for a reason tested by multiple

1482
01:06:18,180 --> 01:06:16,900
independent NSF EPA certified labs they

1483
01:06:20,370 --> 01:06:18,190
are the gold standard in water

1484
01:06:22,200 --> 01:06:20,380
purification and only one point seven

1485
01:06:24,000 --> 01:06:22,210
cents a gallon a single set of filters

1486
01:06:26,940 --> 01:06:24,010
can last for five to ten years

1487
01:06:28,800 --> 01:06:26,950
that means big savings big berkey the

1488
01:06:31,050 --> 01:06:28,810
one that's powerful enough to purify

1489
01:06:33,270 --> 01:06:31,060
stagnant pond water get a big berkey

1490
01:06:35,580 --> 01:06:33,280
today at big berkey water filters comm

1491
01:06:37,800 --> 01:06:35,590
GCN listeners receive five percent off

1492
01:06:41,130 --> 01:06:37,810
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1493
01:06:45,450 --> 01:06:41,140
website or call 187 $7.99 per key that's

1494
01:06:48,740 --> 01:06:45,460
877 99 ber k ey big berkey water filters

1495
01:06:52,980 --> 01:06:48,750
for the love of clean water

1496
01:06:57,700 --> 01:06:55,690
here is what one doctor has to say about

1497
01:06:59,890 --> 01:06:57,710
extend of light I would like to thank

1498
01:07:01,390 --> 01:06:59,900
you for making my job so much easier

1499
01:07:02,950 --> 01:07:01,400
because your products just make it so

1500
01:07:04,780 --> 01:07:02,960
simple right to fool around with a lot

1501
01:07:06,430 --> 01:07:04,790
of exotic things that don't work we can

1502
01:07:08,590 --> 01:07:06,440
put them on your product and things

1503
01:07:10,660 --> 01:07:08,600
start to work almost any way that dozens

1504
01:07:12,430 --> 01:07:10,670
and dozens of patients with heart

1505
01:07:14,650 --> 01:07:12,440
problems who have corrected them and

1506
01:07:16,150 --> 01:07:14,660
what is doing there's so much garlic in

1507
01:07:18,099 --> 01:07:16,160
there that have a yeast killing effect

1508
01:07:20,380 --> 01:07:18,109
the yeast is a big problem in the gut

1509
01:07:22,180 --> 01:07:20,390
pushes the liver heart and also a metal

1510
01:07:24,340 --> 01:07:22,190
chelating effect and most of the other

1511
01:07:26,349 --> 01:07:24,350
herbs in there - strengthen the arteries

1512
01:07:28,420 --> 01:07:26,359
they help to neutralize free radicals

1513
01:07:30,160 --> 01:07:28,430
your RAAM is close to what we do in our

1514
01:07:32,470 --> 01:07:30,170
program as you can get as far as one

1515
01:07:34,750 --> 01:07:32,480
supplement goes it's working on the guys

1516
01:07:36,790 --> 01:07:34,760
working on the liver working on the

1517
01:07:38,920 --> 01:07:36,800
arteries what more can you ask for to

1518
01:07:40,810 --> 01:07:38,930
get your extender bite call one eight

1519
01:07:42,990 --> 01:07:40,820
seven seven nine two eight eight eight

1520
01:07:50,210 --> 01:07:43,000
two two or visit our drop calm

1521
01:07:53,190 --> 01:07:50,220
[Music]

1522
01:07:55,200 --> 01:07:53,200
we'd like to hear from you if you have a

1523
01:07:59,099 --> 01:07:55,210
comment or question about the para cast

1524
01:08:02,430 --> 01:07:59,109
sent it to news at the para cast com

1525
01:08:04,589 --> 01:08:02,440
that's news at the para cast dot-com and

1526
01:08:07,769 --> 01:08:04,599
don't forget to visit our famous para

1527
01:08:12,420 --> 01:08:07,779
cast community forums at forum dot the

1528
01:08:15,059 --> 01:08:12,430
para cast comm with Jean and our guest

1529
01:08:18,899 --> 01:08:15,069
co-host Cox Makai on the parent cast

1530
01:08:21,450 --> 01:08:18,909
John Burroughs Nick Pope Patrick fresco

1531
01:08:24,840 --> 01:08:21,460
Nia he's the attorney who defended John

1532
01:08:27,510 --> 01:08:24,850
and helped him get his just do from the

1533
01:08:30,990 --> 01:08:27,520
VA so he gets coverage for his condition

1534
01:08:33,539 --> 01:08:31,000
let's continue here about the statement

1535
01:08:35,789 --> 01:08:33,549
of disclosure with a small D about this

1536
01:08:38,939 --> 01:08:35,799
information getting into the president's

1537
01:08:40,979 --> 01:08:38,949
office but this could be you Nick or you

1538
01:08:42,930 --> 01:08:40,989
John answering it do you think the

1539
01:08:45,360 --> 01:08:42,940
President of the United States knows

1540
01:08:46,919 --> 01:08:45,370
much about any of this he's too busy

1541
01:08:49,559 --> 01:08:46,929
with other considerations these days

1542
01:08:50,999 --> 01:08:49,569
isn't he well I'll give him my taking it

1543
01:08:53,070 --> 01:08:51,009
maybe it'd be interesting what Nick had

1544
01:08:56,610 --> 01:08:53,080
to say from a you know the British side

1545
01:08:59,129 --> 01:08:56,620
of the you know pond but I if its

1546
01:09:01,879 --> 01:08:59,139
national security which it is I mean

1547
01:09:04,559 --> 01:09:01,889
these documents condign say it is um

1548
01:09:06,300 --> 01:09:04,569
then yeah I mean you would hope he's

1549
01:09:08,340 --> 01:09:06,310
briefed on it and you would hope he's

1550
01:09:10,620 --> 01:09:08,350
kept abreast of it how deep he's briefed

1551
01:09:12,990 --> 01:09:10,630
on it no one knows but you know there

1552
01:09:14,610 --> 01:09:13,000
but it's clear that you know there's

1553
01:09:16,019 --> 01:09:14,620
things flying around in a schedule and

1554
01:09:18,840 --> 01:09:16,029
identified there's things going on that

1555
01:09:20,669 --> 01:09:18,850
unidentified I'm sure you know the

1556
01:09:22,649 --> 01:09:20,679
Pentagon itself is more into it than

1557
01:09:25,140 --> 01:09:22,659
anything else but I would I would assume

1558
01:09:27,149 --> 01:09:25,150
I would have to assume based on just the

1559
01:09:29,129 --> 01:09:27,159
covering of the documents like way back

1560
01:09:31,200 --> 01:09:29,139
Peter Gersten went for a bunch of

1561
01:09:33,899 --> 01:09:31,210
documents that were all blacked out okay

1562
01:09:36,720 --> 01:09:33,909
condign itself the majority of it is

1563
01:09:39,570 --> 01:09:36,730
still classified okay then you go into

1564
01:09:41,309 --> 01:09:39,580
the fact that you even go into our FOIA

1565
01:09:42,990 --> 01:09:41,319
with the United States government two

1566
01:09:44,129 --> 01:09:43,000
things stood out State Department's

1567
01:09:45,689 --> 01:09:44,139
involved an incident we've got

1568
01:09:47,430 --> 01:09:45,699
verification of that they told us they

1569
01:09:49,169 --> 01:09:47,440
didn't add documents on it they won't

1570
01:09:49,379 --> 01:09:49,179
really some alistel air force agree to

1571
01:09:51,419 --> 01:09:49,389
it

1572
01:09:53,189 --> 01:09:51,429
Air Force denied the documents and then

1573
01:09:54,810 --> 01:09:53,199
the CIA said he neither confirm or deny

1574
01:09:56,879 --> 01:09:54,820
if their own classified information on

1575
01:09:58,770 --> 01:09:56,889
the incident so you would hope and

1576
01:10:00,520 --> 01:09:58,780
believe that he has some kind of

1577
01:10:03,430 --> 01:10:00,530
knowledge of what's going on

1578
01:10:06,310 --> 01:10:03,440
can you quickly comment on this whole

1579
01:10:11,640 --> 01:10:06,320
thing about of no defense significance

1580
01:10:16,150 --> 01:10:11,650
when you were working at the mo D at the

1581
01:10:20,190 --> 01:10:16,160
inverted commas UFO desk you know so on

1582
01:10:24,790 --> 01:10:20,200
the one hand we have this situation at a

1583
01:10:28,030 --> 01:10:24,800
nuclear-armed carrying base that was

1584
01:10:30,970 --> 01:10:28,040
subsequently classified the information

1585
01:10:33,160 --> 01:10:30,980
on this but on the other hand at least

1586
01:10:35,320 --> 01:10:33,170
publicly we're told this is of no

1587
01:10:38,020 --> 01:10:35,330
defence significance when it couldn't be

1588
01:10:40,480 --> 01:10:38,030
anything you know other than very

1589
01:10:44,080 --> 01:10:40,490
significant but considering that you

1590
01:10:46,900 --> 01:10:44,090
were an insider to your superiors

1591
01:10:50,080 --> 01:10:46,910
immediate superiors colleagues around or

1592
01:10:53,440 --> 01:10:50,090
you know who whose decision is it to

1593
01:10:56,170 --> 01:10:53,450
actually to use that classic seeing well

1594
01:10:59,650 --> 01:10:56,180
it was of no defense significance who

1595
01:11:03,070 --> 01:10:59,660
actually says that who writes out the

1596
01:11:07,240 --> 01:11:03,080
phrase no defence significance dates

1597
01:11:10,090 --> 01:11:07,250
back decades I don't have a precise year

1598
01:11:13,150 --> 01:11:10,100
when it was first used but it is

1599
01:11:16,450 --> 01:11:13,160
essentially just a sound by it it's what

1600
01:11:20,560 --> 01:11:16,460
we routinely told the British Parliament

1601
01:11:23,220 --> 01:11:20,570
any media outlets who asked and of

1602
01:11:26,260 --> 01:11:23,230
course the public it was we very

1603
01:11:29,650 --> 01:11:26,270
deliberately didn't define what we meant

1604
01:11:33,160 --> 01:11:29,660
by it and that's a typical kind of civil

1605
01:11:35,950 --> 01:11:33,170
servant thing we kind of I suppose the

1606
01:11:39,250 --> 01:11:35,960
shorthand if if we had to ever justify

1607
01:11:42,520 --> 01:11:39,260
it it would be translated something

1608
01:11:44,380 --> 01:11:42,530
along the lines of well you know these

1609
01:11:48,070 --> 01:11:44,390
things whatever they may turn out to be

1610
01:11:52,260 --> 01:11:48,080
a not openly hostile and that's about it

1611
01:11:55,060 --> 01:11:52,270
so it's it is just a lazy soundbite

1612
01:11:56,530 --> 01:11:55,070
effectively trotted out routinely to

1613
01:12:00,370 --> 01:11:56,540
keep people off our backs

1614
01:12:02,680 --> 01:12:00,380
but self-evidently cases like the

1615
01:12:04,660 --> 01:12:02,690
Rendlesham forest nail the lie i mean

1616
01:12:07,510 --> 01:12:04,670
it's impossible to look at the case like

1617
01:12:09,550 --> 01:12:07,520
that and really conclude that it's of no

1618
01:12:13,220 --> 01:12:09,560
defense significance and there's a very

1619
01:12:15,620 --> 01:12:13,230
famous quote of course from former

1620
01:12:18,229 --> 01:12:15,630
for the defense staff in the UK Lord

1621
01:12:20,660 --> 01:12:18,239
Hill Norton where he says precisely that

1622
01:12:24,020 --> 01:12:20,670
he says clearly whatever went down here

1623
01:12:26,150 --> 01:12:24,030
was of extreme defense significance no

1624
01:12:27,920 --> 01:12:26,160
they were either all hallucinating or

1625
01:12:31,280 --> 01:12:27,930
something happened and either way it's

1626
01:12:33,680 --> 01:12:31,290
very important that's exactly it yes

1627
01:12:36,880 --> 01:12:33,690
that's that's precisely what he he said

1628
01:12:40,520 --> 01:12:36,890
on many occasions yes just very recently

1629
01:12:43,160 --> 01:12:40,530
there was this tweet from John Podesta

1630
01:12:45,770 --> 01:12:43,170
leaving the White House former chief of

1631
01:12:47,570 --> 01:12:45,780
staff with President Clinton and rumored

1632
01:12:51,550 --> 01:12:47,580
to be part of Hillary Clinton's campaign

1633
01:12:54,440 --> 01:12:51,560
his biggest regret was not getting

1634
01:12:55,580 --> 01:12:54,450
information about UFOs in so many words

1635
01:12:58,670 --> 01:12:55,590
now

1636
01:13:00,590 --> 01:12:58,680
that was widely quoted and widely

1637
01:13:03,500 --> 01:13:00,600
derided by the mainstream media

1638
01:13:06,860 --> 01:13:03,510
oh the implication being that this is a

1639
01:13:09,350 --> 01:13:06,870
wacky political aide do you think that

1640
01:13:11,570 --> 01:13:09,360
actually helped in any way the cause of

1641
01:13:13,160 --> 01:13:11,580
getting more information or is it just

1642
01:13:15,920 --> 01:13:13,170
something that was a story for three

1643
01:13:18,770 --> 01:13:15,930
seconds who wants to take that Nick yeah

1644
01:13:21,290 --> 01:13:18,780
I'll take that in the UK we have an old

1645
01:13:24,400 --> 01:13:21,300
saying it may not translate that well

1646
01:13:27,590 --> 01:13:24,410
over in the States but yesterday's

1647
01:13:30,770 --> 01:13:27,600
newspaper is today's fish-and-chip paper

1648
01:13:34,580 --> 01:13:30,780
which is is kind of basic clear yeah

1649
01:13:37,010 --> 01:13:34,590
saying that once once a story has run

1650
01:13:40,190 --> 01:13:37,020
and is out there you have people tend to

1651
01:13:44,000 --> 01:13:40,200
forget it quite quite quickly but his

1652
01:13:45,590 --> 01:13:44,010
remarks whatever the true intent were I

1653
01:13:48,290 --> 01:13:45,600
think extremely helpful

1654
01:13:51,710 --> 01:13:48,300
I actually met John Podesta a few years

1655
01:13:54,050 --> 01:13:51,720
ago and I mean I his his interest in

1656
01:13:57,020 --> 01:13:54,060
this subject is certainly part of it is

1657
01:14:00,800 --> 01:13:57,030
due to his commitment to open government

1658
01:14:02,510 --> 01:14:00,810
and freedom of information but there's

1659
01:14:05,390 --> 01:14:02,520
no doubt that he's genuinely interested

1660
01:14:07,610 --> 01:14:05,400
in the phenomenon to whether some of the

1661
01:14:09,110 --> 01:14:07,620
conspiracy theory is suggesting that he

1662
01:14:11,330 --> 01:14:09,120
knows much more than he's going to say

1663
01:14:12,830 --> 01:14:11,340
and try and you know chipping away at

1664
01:14:15,170 --> 01:14:12,840
the ages trying to get something out I

1665
01:14:17,479 --> 01:14:15,180
couldn't speak to that but yeah I think

1666
01:14:20,810 --> 01:14:17,489
his remarks were enormously helpful

1667
01:14:23,270 --> 01:14:20,820
because in in the grand scheme of things

1668
01:14:26,459 --> 01:14:23,280
when one tries subsequently to engage

1669
01:14:29,399 --> 01:14:26,469
with the mainstream media on this it's

1670
01:14:31,649 --> 01:14:29,409
it's kind of one thing to say that you

1671
01:14:33,660 --> 01:14:31,659
know someone's had a UFO sighting on a

1672
01:14:35,160 --> 01:14:33,670
lonely country road late at night but

1673
01:14:37,560 --> 01:14:35,170
it's quite another to say a former

1674
01:14:40,109 --> 01:14:37,570
presidential chief of staff has has

1675
01:14:43,290 --> 01:14:40,119
commented on this so yeah it moves us

1676
01:14:45,149 --> 01:14:43,300
forward anything about the other side of

1677
01:14:46,890 --> 01:14:45,159
the publicity spectrum and I'll give you

1678
01:14:49,410 --> 01:14:46,900
an example of this so we had the

1679
01:14:51,750 --> 01:14:49,420
International UFO Congress near Phoenix

1680
01:14:53,129 --> 01:14:51,760
this past week and when Chris O'Brien's

1681
01:14:55,589 --> 01:14:53,139
back on next week's show he'll talk

1682
01:14:57,959 --> 01:14:55,599
about it more there was a story in The

1683
01:15:01,009 --> 01:14:57,969
Arizona Republic which is a Gannett

1684
01:15:05,629 --> 01:15:01,019
newspaper repeated in USA Today and

1685
01:15:08,279 --> 01:15:05,639
basically it focused strictly or 90% on

1686
01:15:10,140 --> 01:15:08,289
abductions about people involved in

1687
01:15:13,319 --> 01:15:10,150
abductions and that was the smallest

1688
01:15:15,540 --> 01:15:13,329
part of the event and the speakers but

1689
01:15:17,489 --> 01:15:15,550
it was the most sensational part you

1690
01:15:19,770 --> 01:15:17,499
know like somebody there was giving

1691
01:15:22,620 --> 01:15:19,780
treatment for people who were abducted

1692
01:15:25,020 --> 01:15:22,630
and therefore the entire event was

1693
01:15:27,529 --> 01:15:25,030
painted as a place for those who think

1694
01:15:31,020 --> 01:15:27,539
they were abducted to get help or

1695
01:15:33,509 --> 01:15:31,030
validation as you see that really didn't

1696
01:15:35,640 --> 01:15:33,519
have that much to do with this event but

1697
01:15:38,299 --> 01:15:35,650
this is what happens they look at the

1698
01:15:42,180 --> 01:15:38,309
least of what happens in any of these

1699
01:15:44,310 --> 01:15:42,190
UFO conventions and that becomes the

1700
01:15:46,649 --> 01:15:44,320
story we only have about 40 50 seconds

1701
01:15:49,350 --> 01:15:46,659
to go but I want to get reactions from

1702
01:15:52,379 --> 01:15:49,360
John burrows and from Nick Pope John

1703
01:15:54,569 --> 01:15:52,389
it's kind of like this to me um people

1704
01:15:55,739 --> 01:15:54,579
want an answer they they think the

1705
01:15:58,049 --> 01:15:55,749
government is going to give it to them

1706
01:16:00,060 --> 01:15:58,059
and most people overall don't think the

1707
01:16:01,439 --> 01:16:00,070
government's being truthful in any way

1708
01:16:03,089 --> 01:16:01,449
so why do they really expect the

1709
01:16:05,850 --> 01:16:03,099
government to give them a straight-up

1710
01:16:08,189 --> 01:16:05,860
answer but ultimately when it's

1711
01:16:10,439 --> 01:16:08,199
definitely the unknown and you're also

1712
01:16:11,790 --> 01:16:10,449
risking your career which along the

1713
01:16:13,469 --> 01:16:11,800
lines you see any politician ever

1714
01:16:15,450 --> 01:16:13,479
touches this it doesn't go well for them

1715
01:16:17,100 --> 01:16:15,460
why should the press step out stick

1716
01:16:18,779 --> 01:16:17,110
their neck out on the lines anyway but

1717
01:16:20,370 --> 01:16:18,789
maybe this time they will because

1718
01:16:22,439 --> 01:16:20,380
there's a lot more proof to back up what

1719
01:16:24,750 --> 01:16:22,449
we're saying and moving forward so we'll

1720
01:16:27,180 --> 01:16:24,760
see John burrows Nick Pope Patrick

1721
01:16:30,810 --> 01:16:27,190
Rascoe Nia we'll be leaving soon because

1722
01:16:39,000 --> 01:16:30,820
he has to go back to being a lawyer with

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and sweat dripping from your forehead

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01:19:55,210 --> 01:19:53,840
you finally muster the courage to dial

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01:20:01,090 --> 01:19:59,420
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1810
01:20:03,220 --> 01:20:01,100
what's your name and Mistie comic from

1811
01:20:05,320 --> 01:20:03,230
surprised you got through you squeak out

1812
01:20:07,090 --> 01:20:05,330
Jason from Minnesota please hold

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01:20:09,460 --> 01:20:07,100
as you patiently wait for your turn you

1814
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begin to date about being a famous talk

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01:20:15,140 --> 01:20:11,489
radio host and where would be

1816
01:20:17,479 --> 01:20:15,150
wrong show Minnesota millions of loyal

1817
01:20:19,489 --> 01:20:17,489
listeners worldwide waiting to call and

1818
01:20:21,439 --> 01:20:19,499
talk to you color are you there

1819
01:20:23,050 --> 01:20:21,449
cheering crowd surrounds me calling out

1820
01:20:24,530 --> 01:20:23,060
your name

1821
01:20:27,560 --> 01:20:24,540
[Applause]

1822
01:20:32,420 --> 01:20:27,570
going once twice okay we gotta move on

1823
01:20:33,560 --> 01:20:32,430
to the next caller get around with the

1824
01:20:36,650 --> 01:20:33,570
host you're listening to right now

1825
01:20:38,420 --> 01:20:36,660
online at GC and live.com click on the

1826
01:20:40,520 --> 01:20:38,430
community link engage with other

1827
01:20:42,020 --> 01:20:40,530
listeners ask questions start debates

1828
01:20:44,510 --> 01:20:42,030
don't agree with the host

1829
01:20:57,839 --> 01:20:44,520
let them know be a part of the community

1830
01:21:02,580 --> 01:21:00,750
this is Robert Hastings author of UFOs

1831
01:21:05,219 --> 01:21:02,590
and nukes and you're listening to the

1832
01:21:12,719 --> 01:21:05,229
podcast the gold standard of paranormal

1833
01:21:15,209 --> 01:21:12,729
radio we have John Burroughs Nick Pope

1834
01:21:18,889 --> 01:21:15,219
Patrick fresco Nia Pat of course was a

1835
01:21:21,330 --> 01:21:18,899
lawyer who defended John burrows in

1836
01:21:24,119 --> 01:21:21,340
getting his coverage from the VA

1837
01:21:25,830 --> 01:21:24,129
Pat I know you have to go shortly having

1838
01:21:27,719 --> 01:21:25,840
gotten this victory you're in touch with

1839
01:21:29,909 --> 01:21:27,729
other people and obviously you have to

1840
01:21:32,429 --> 01:21:29,919
maintain a practice and earn a living

1841
01:21:35,250 --> 01:21:32,439
what's your personal viewpoint now about

1842
01:21:39,209 --> 01:21:35,260
UFOs do you have any particular ideas

1843
01:21:40,349 --> 01:21:39,219
well I didn't begin I didn't set out to

1844
01:21:42,959 --> 01:21:40,359
prove anything

1845
01:21:44,909 --> 01:21:42,969
I just set out to essentially answer

1846
01:21:48,719 --> 01:21:44,919
some questions of my own and to help him

1847
01:21:51,540 --> 01:21:48,729
all the way but I have to say that at

1848
01:21:53,459 --> 01:21:51,550
this point at the four years working the

1849
01:21:55,949 --> 01:21:53,469
John and all that we've been through

1850
01:21:58,739 --> 01:21:55,959
together and getting him coverage from

1851
01:22:01,139 --> 01:21:58,749
the VA there's no question that there's

1852
01:22:03,629 --> 01:22:01,149
something unusual that's been going on

1853
01:22:06,899 --> 01:22:03,639
it's certainly the first hurdle that I

1854
01:22:10,199 --> 01:22:06,909
got over personally was whether John and

1855
01:22:11,549 --> 01:22:10,209
Jim Jim Penniston were being honest

1856
01:22:13,469 --> 01:22:11,559
about what had happened to them that

1857
01:22:16,229 --> 01:22:13,479
that's not a question anymore that I

1858
01:22:18,149 --> 01:22:16,239
know that they are totally honest it's

1859
01:22:20,520 --> 01:22:18,159
just a matter of what was it and after

1860
01:22:22,619 --> 01:22:20,530
you review all the possibilities in your

1861
01:22:26,250 --> 01:22:22,629
mind you come down to the fact that

1862
01:22:29,159 --> 01:22:26,260
there is something so unusual going on

1863
01:22:31,889 --> 01:22:29,169
whatever that is that it is well beyond

1864
01:22:33,389 --> 01:22:31,899
what the public is aware of so kind of

1865
01:22:36,270 --> 01:22:33,399
like I've mentioned to John before I

1866
01:22:39,899 --> 01:22:36,280
really hope it's from outside these or

1867
01:22:41,040 --> 01:22:39,909
rather than something of ours because I

1868
01:22:43,859 --> 01:22:41,050
hate to think that we have the

1869
01:22:46,589 --> 01:22:43,869
capabilities to construct and operate a

1870
01:22:48,149 --> 01:22:46,599
craft like John saw I think I'd take

1871
01:22:51,080 --> 01:22:48,159
more comfort if I knew it came from

1872
01:22:54,149 --> 01:22:51,090
outside the earth so personally I think

1873
01:22:56,669 --> 01:22:54,159
we have been experiencing something that

1874
01:22:58,109 --> 01:22:56,679
is coming from outside and that's not

1875
01:23:00,540 --> 01:22:58,119
necessarily what I thought I was going

1876
01:23:02,939 --> 01:23:00,550
to come to the conclusion I began so I

1877
01:23:04,979 --> 01:23:02,949
didn't try to make it that way it's just

1878
01:23:07,020 --> 01:23:04,989
the way it's unfold explain you know I

1879
01:23:09,119 --> 01:23:07,030
was looking over your background Pat as

1880
01:23:10,620 --> 01:23:09,129
you were talking and I was really

1881
01:23:13,890 --> 01:23:10,630
impressed by the fact you

1882
01:23:17,520 --> 01:23:13,900
a really wide-ranging education you got

1883
01:23:21,390 --> 01:23:17,530
a bachelor's degree in geology from UCLA

1884
01:23:24,720 --> 01:23:21,400
you studied German language you course

1885
01:23:26,850 --> 01:23:24,730
study law before becoming a assistant

1886
01:23:30,149 --> 01:23:26,860
public defender in Mississippi so you've

1887
01:23:33,060 --> 01:23:30,159
been all over the place here in becoming

1888
01:23:36,090 --> 01:23:33,070
the well-educated gentleman and having

1889
01:23:38,070 --> 01:23:36,100
been involved in UFOs in connection with

1890
01:23:40,649 --> 01:23:38,080
the citizens hearing on disclosure and

1891
01:23:42,959 --> 01:23:40,659
in connection with the work and the

1892
01:23:44,939 --> 01:23:42,969
experiences of John Burroughs what is

1893
01:23:47,129 --> 01:23:44,949
your reaction to this crazy field you

1894
01:23:49,200 --> 01:23:47,139
find yourself wondering sometimes

1895
01:23:51,419 --> 01:23:49,210
whether it's worth it because of some of

1896
01:23:53,160 --> 01:23:51,429
the infighting that goes on oh well

1897
01:23:56,310 --> 01:23:53,170
there's no question is infighting there

1898
01:23:57,810 --> 01:23:56,320
are egos - I think that do some damage

1899
01:24:00,090 --> 01:23:57,820
to the field that you're probably going

1900
01:24:02,340 --> 01:24:00,100
to find in anything in which you know

1901
01:24:04,439 --> 01:24:02,350
people have you ever contact with the

1902
01:24:07,140 --> 01:24:04,449
media or what have you but you mentioned

1903
01:24:10,860 --> 01:24:07,150
being educated to me there is nothing

1904
01:24:13,350 --> 01:24:10,870
more important than this field for all

1905
01:24:15,419 --> 01:24:13,360
the people of this planet to be aware of

1906
01:24:18,899 --> 01:24:15,429
there's nothing more important because

1907
01:24:21,390 --> 01:24:18,909
it impacts everything everything in such

1908
01:24:23,250 --> 01:24:21,400
a big way it's a shame that through

1909
01:24:25,680 --> 01:24:23,260
government disinformation programs

1910
01:24:28,830 --> 01:24:25,690
through the years that they have muzzled

1911
01:24:31,350 --> 01:24:28,840
the active the mission that they have

1912
01:24:33,780 --> 01:24:31,360
kept and made it silly for mainstream

1913
01:24:35,790 --> 01:24:33,790
media powers to cover they did a really

1914
01:24:37,890 --> 01:24:35,800
good job with that and it's really a

1915
01:24:40,439 --> 01:24:37,900
shame because this is the biggest story

1916
01:24:42,360 --> 01:24:40,449
or maybe at least the second-biggest

1917
01:24:44,550 --> 01:24:42,370
depending on what your religious state

1918
01:24:46,800 --> 01:24:44,560
you know could be that the whole world

1919
01:24:48,390 --> 01:24:46,810
is ever known it makes for me it makes

1920
01:24:50,300 --> 01:24:48,400
total sense to be involved in because

1921
01:24:53,250 --> 01:24:50,310
everybody on the planet should be

1922
01:24:55,740 --> 01:24:53,260
enjoying what this holds for all of us

1923
01:24:58,620 --> 01:24:55,750
do you expect a resolution in our

1924
01:25:01,860 --> 01:24:58,630
lifetimes now I've been involved in

1925
01:25:05,600 --> 01:25:01,870
studying UFOs since before you went to

1926
01:25:09,060 --> 01:25:05,610
college and I know that I have not seen

1927
01:25:11,330 --> 01:25:09,070
much in the way of progress over those

1928
01:25:13,709 --> 01:25:11,340
years now I think this is progress

1929
01:25:15,149 --> 01:25:13,719
getting help for John Burroughs and

1930
01:25:17,040 --> 01:25:15,159
maybe that will lead to something and

1931
01:25:18,990 --> 01:25:17,050
that's another question I guess we'll

1932
01:25:21,479 --> 01:25:19,000
ask us we wrap up this segment Pat

1933
01:25:21,839 --> 01:25:21,489
having worked with Senator McCain and

1934
01:25:24,449 --> 01:25:21,849
gay

1935
01:25:27,389 --> 01:25:24,459
the help and getting the VA to cover

1936
01:25:29,250 --> 01:25:27,399
this is Senator McCain indicating at all

1937
01:25:31,049 --> 01:25:29,260
that he wants to do anything at all to

1938
01:25:33,569 --> 01:25:31,059
try to get more information from the

1939
01:25:35,250 --> 01:25:33,579
government on UFOs i'ma have to kick

1940
01:25:37,919 --> 01:25:35,260
that over to John since he had the most

1941
01:25:40,949 --> 01:25:37,929
recent conversation with them about that

1942
01:25:43,259 --> 01:25:40,959
if I could okay no problem

1943
01:25:45,389 --> 01:25:43,269
the issue is this Senator McCain did not

1944
01:25:46,799 --> 01:25:45,399
even like what Pat said you know he did

1945
01:25:48,779 --> 01:25:46,809
do a congressman or senator McCain's

1946
01:25:51,839 --> 01:25:48,789
office did not take this on as a UFO

1947
01:25:53,549 --> 01:25:51,849
case he took this on as a case that he

1948
01:25:55,979 --> 01:25:53,559
could see what his constituents was

1949
01:25:58,770 --> 01:25:55,989
getting railroaded and he got into it

1950
01:26:00,270 --> 01:25:58,780
about the time they denied my care based

1951
01:26:03,599 --> 01:26:00,280
on the fact I wasn't in the Air Force

1952
01:26:05,429 --> 01:26:03,609
and the fact that I didn't there was no

1953
01:26:08,459 --> 01:26:05,439
medical records and they moved forward

1954
01:26:10,799 --> 01:26:08,469
were at that were they aware what I was

1955
01:26:12,869 --> 01:26:10,809
implying happened yes did they move

1956
01:26:14,669 --> 01:26:12,879
forward this at great risk you could say

1957
01:26:16,529 --> 01:26:14,679
so because of the fact what I was

1958
01:26:18,659 --> 01:26:16,539
implying happened not what they knew was

1959
01:26:21,569 --> 01:26:18,669
happening did they know that things

1960
01:26:23,040 --> 01:26:21,579
didn't add up yes because how can you

1961
01:26:24,179 --> 01:26:23,050
sit there and say a guy wasn't in the

1962
01:26:25,830 --> 01:26:24,189
Air Force when he was and they were

1963
01:26:27,899 --> 01:26:25,840
looking at documents to support that and

1964
01:26:29,399 --> 01:26:27,909
the VA chose to overlook it along with

1965
01:26:30,929 --> 01:26:29,409
the Department of Defense because the

1966
01:26:33,089 --> 01:26:30,939
Dongmin defense was involved in this

1967
01:26:35,939 --> 01:26:33,099
because they contacted the Air Force AF

1968
01:26:37,679 --> 01:26:35,949
RPC and they said you know we've got

1969
01:26:39,629 --> 01:26:37,689
proof this guy was in and they came back

1970
01:26:41,879 --> 01:26:39,639
and said no he isn't no he wasn't

1971
01:26:44,040 --> 01:26:41,889
and he even sent me an email saying that

1972
01:26:46,379 --> 01:26:44,050
I wasn't that wasn't in during that time

1973
01:26:47,580 --> 01:26:46,389
frame okay we got around it they

1974
01:26:49,889 --> 01:26:47,590
eventually got it taken care of

1975
01:26:52,139 --> 01:26:49,899
the senior aide down in Phoenix at one

1976
01:26:54,839 --> 01:26:52,149
point said the aim that was taking care

1977
01:26:56,549 --> 01:26:54,849
to state a yeoman's job to get get my DD

1978
01:26:58,619 --> 01:26:56,559
Form 214 released but would never

1979
01:27:00,689 --> 01:26:58,629
probably give access to my medical

1980
01:27:01,709 --> 01:27:00,699
records senator Sanders got in the

1981
01:27:03,270 --> 01:27:01,719
middle of it the head of the VA

1982
01:27:05,580 --> 01:27:03,280
Oversight Committee for the Senate he

1983
01:27:07,319 --> 01:27:05,590
came back I said they were classified so

1984
01:27:09,449 --> 01:27:07,329
all the Senators are involved weren't

1985
01:27:11,580 --> 01:27:09,459
looking at it from this standpoint of at

1986
01:27:13,830 --> 01:27:11,590
least at that point oh really what

1987
01:27:15,359 --> 01:27:13,840
happened no not as much as getting me

1988
01:27:17,639 --> 01:27:15,369
some kind of care based on the fact that

1989
01:27:20,009 --> 01:27:17,649
it didn't add up now was there a point

1990
01:27:22,139 --> 01:27:20,019
where it was discussed not about UFOs

1991
01:27:24,629 --> 01:27:22,149
and you know ApS but it was discussed if

1992
01:27:26,310 --> 01:27:24,639
in fact that they're going to deny the

1993
01:27:27,929 --> 01:27:26,320
documents presented to him and look at

1994
01:27:29,879 --> 01:27:27,939
this closer would there be a further

1995
01:27:32,879 --> 01:27:29,889
investigation into what really happened

1996
01:27:34,589 --> 01:27:32,889
out there yes but at no time no time did

1997
01:27:35,700 --> 01:27:34,599
any of these senators ever implied in

1998
01:27:37,350 --> 01:27:35,710
you anything about UFO

1999
01:27:39,240 --> 01:27:37,360
or anything else all they were doing was

2000
01:27:41,220 --> 01:27:39,250
trying to get my records both my

2001
01:27:43,440 --> 01:27:41,230
personnel my medical records and get me

2002
01:27:46,020 --> 01:27:43,450
taken care of what I think that making

2003
01:27:48,870 --> 01:27:46,030
the process a little more effective when

2004
01:27:50,459 --> 01:27:48,880
you start pushing the UFO angle that

2005
01:27:52,830 --> 01:27:50,469
turns off a lot of people doesn't it

2006
01:27:54,600 --> 01:27:52,840
well yeah it does but the thing is is

2007
01:27:56,100 --> 01:27:54,610
two of the documents that were submitted

2008
01:27:58,709 --> 01:27:56,110
because this is what people need to be

2009
01:28:00,540 --> 01:27:58,719
clear about this was all submitted

2010
01:28:02,640 --> 01:28:00,550
based on the fact that I was injured in

2011
01:28:04,140 --> 01:28:02,650
the line of duty the VA does not give

2012
01:28:06,720 --> 01:28:04,150
you disability unless is service-related

2013
01:28:07,170 --> 01:28:06,730
so something had to happen to you in the

2014
01:28:10,020 --> 01:28:07,180
service

2015
01:28:12,570 --> 01:28:10,030
to qualify for disability the VA does

2016
01:28:14,430 --> 01:28:12,580
not give it unless it does our claim was

2017
01:28:16,530 --> 01:28:14,440
based solely on the fact that I was in

2018
01:28:18,720 --> 01:28:16,540
the field I was damaged by radiation and

2019
01:28:21,030 --> 01:28:18,730
not only that everything that they

2020
01:28:23,040 --> 01:28:21,040
replied to had nothing to do with

2021
01:28:25,200 --> 01:28:23,050
anything other than the fact that was in

2022
01:28:26,760 --> 01:28:25,210
the documents that they supported that

2023
01:28:28,260 --> 01:28:26,770
was injured a line of duty where the

2024
01:28:30,330 --> 01:28:28,270
runs from force documents to include

2025
01:28:33,630 --> 01:28:30,340
project condign and emod over explosion

2026
01:28:36,900 --> 01:28:33,640
and radiation so it was all indirect was

2027
01:28:38,400 --> 01:28:36,910
all indirect what what do you mean by

2028
01:28:39,810 --> 01:28:38,410
indirect us for I mean of course they're

2029
01:28:43,440 --> 01:28:39,820
not saying well you were injured by a

2030
01:28:45,360 --> 01:28:43,450
UFO it was no no that no condign well I

2031
01:28:47,160 --> 01:28:45,370
want going to condign them in our next

2032
01:28:48,810 --> 01:28:47,170
segment let's define that because we

2033
01:28:51,330 --> 01:28:48,820
covered it in the last episode we did

2034
01:28:54,300 --> 01:28:51,340
with you and Nick and I'd like to get

2035
01:28:56,880 --> 01:28:54,310
into that further in the next segment

2036
01:28:58,020 --> 01:28:56,890
cover more of what we know and then of

2037
01:29:01,500 --> 01:28:58,030
course we have questions from our

2038
01:29:03,120 --> 01:29:01,510
listeners wise cops oh that last

2039
01:29:04,500 --> 01:29:03,130
question by being indirect I like to

2040
01:29:07,290 --> 01:29:04,510
clarify that please all right go ahead

2041
01:29:08,729 --> 01:29:07,300
okay basically you could call it

2042
01:29:11,490 --> 01:29:08,739
indirect but it really isn't because

2043
01:29:14,430 --> 01:29:11,500
they knew exactly what our case was

2044
01:29:15,510 --> 01:29:14,440
based on and by that we said that I was

2045
01:29:17,670 --> 01:29:15,520
injured in the line of duty at

2046
01:29:19,920 --> 01:29:17,680
Rendlesham and I was exposed to

2047
01:29:22,320 --> 01:29:19,930
radiation they initially denied my claim

2048
01:29:23,459 --> 01:29:22,330
based on the fact that I was not in the

2049
01:29:25,020 --> 01:29:23,469
Air Force so therefore it couldn't

2050
01:29:26,459 --> 01:29:25,030
happen in my case file what I've been

2051
01:29:28,410 --> 01:29:26,469
able to get a hold of they even joked

2052
01:29:31,110 --> 01:29:28,420
about how I claimed I was damaged by

2053
01:29:33,030 --> 01:29:31,120
radiation I don't remember so I don't

2054
01:29:34,740 --> 01:29:33,040
want to say they mentioned UFOs or not

2055
01:29:36,600 --> 01:29:34,750
but the people are reviewing it but they

2056
01:29:38,820 --> 01:29:36,610
did imply that I was implying I was

2057
01:29:41,220 --> 01:29:38,830
injured by you ApS and everything else

2058
01:29:43,620 --> 01:29:41,230
now you ApS it's interesting when you go

2059
01:29:45,720 --> 01:29:43,630
into it a UAP is just basically a

2060
01:29:47,600 --> 01:29:45,730
different word for UFOs what I'd like to

2061
01:29:50,360 --> 01:29:47,610
finish this one segment I'm

2062
01:29:52,820 --> 01:29:50,370
we'll say is nobody said it was aliens

2063
01:29:55,730 --> 01:29:52,830
they simply said that I clearly was

2064
01:29:58,370 --> 01:29:55,740
injured by by being exposed to what

2065
01:30:00,050 --> 01:29:58,380
condign said Patrick if our listeners

2066
01:30:03,020 --> 01:30:00,060
want to get in touch with you about

2067
01:30:04,550 --> 01:30:03,030
anything related to the services you

2068
01:30:05,960 --> 01:30:04,560
offer with regard to anything like this

2069
01:30:10,940 --> 01:30:05,970
or anything else you have an address

2070
01:30:15,350 --> 01:30:10,950
they can contact our website email me at

2071
01:30:16,610 --> 01:30:15,360
Pat fresco yong at fresco law comm tak

2072
01:30:18,560 --> 01:30:16,620
fresconi Oakland

2073
01:30:21,920 --> 01:30:18,570
thank you so much for coming on the para

2074
01:30:23,870 --> 01:30:21,930
cast and we'll be in touch with you

2075
01:30:26,000 --> 01:30:23,880
thank you we have John Burroughs Nick

2076
01:30:33,560 --> 01:30:26,010
Pope remaining with us with Cox Makai

2077
01:30:42,660 --> 01:30:38,390
[Music]

2078
01:30:47,850 --> 01:30:42,670
laughs but always independent-minded the

2079
01:30:49,560 --> 01:30:47,860
genesis communications network GC first

2080
01:30:51,600 --> 01:30:49,570
came attack of the rockets and it was a

2081
01:30:53,550 --> 01:30:51,610
critically acclaimed success and now

2082
01:30:55,680 --> 01:30:53,560
there is the coming of the protectors a

2083
01:30:57,990 --> 01:30:55,690
former military intelligence man is

2084
01:30:59,790 --> 01:30:58,000
contacted by a space woman in a dream a

2085
01:31:02,189 --> 01:30:59,800
dream that turns out to be a nightmare

2086
01:31:04,229 --> 01:31:02,199
because evil forces on our distant

2087
01:31:06,570 --> 01:31:04,239
planet are planning to conquer the earth

2088
01:31:09,030 --> 01:31:06,580
this is gripping science fiction of the

2089
01:31:11,100 --> 01:31:09,040
classic kind attack of the rock codes

2090
01:31:13,709 --> 01:31:11,110
and the coming of the protectors find

2091
01:31:17,790 --> 01:31:13,719
out more and Rocco is calm that's rock

2092
01:31:19,500 --> 01:31:17,800
oh it's our Ock oids calm so here's what

2093
01:31:22,919 --> 01:31:19,510
happened I was placing an order online

2094
01:31:24,720 --> 01:31:22,929
the site went down it took hours before

2095
01:31:26,580 --> 01:31:24,730
it returned but I'd already placed the

2096
01:31:29,040 --> 01:31:26,590
order with another company if your site

2097
01:31:30,600 --> 01:31:29,050
goes down you could lose business and if

2098
01:31:32,939 --> 01:31:30,610
you have a business or personal site

2099
01:31:36,450 --> 01:31:32,949
you'll want to know it's easy to run and

2100
01:31:38,850 --> 01:31:36,460
it will stay online at iWeb your site is

2101
01:31:41,640 --> 01:31:38,860
hosted on one of the most reliable

2102
01:31:44,790 --> 01:31:41,650
networks in the world talk to a sales

2103
01:31:47,729 --> 01:31:44,800
rep at iWeb comm use the promo code tech

2104
01:31:49,709 --> 01:31:47,739
Nite Owl for a special discount as the

2105
01:31:52,770 --> 01:31:49,719
New World Order continues to tighten its

2106
01:31:55,169 --> 01:31:52,780
grip on every facet of our lives we're

2107
01:31:58,770 --> 01:31:55,179
all asking ourselves how can we maintain

2108
01:32:01,320 --> 01:31:58,780
our independence the answer is clear get

2109
01:32:03,479 --> 01:32:01,330
prepared and you get prepared now now

2110
01:32:07,830 --> 01:32:03,489
the only question left is where do we

2111
01:32:10,439 --> 01:32:07,840
begin then my Patriot ooh help call 802

2112
01:32:12,600 --> 01:32:10,449
four seven three zero seven zero to get

2113
01:32:15,720 --> 01:32:12,610
started with your 72-hour emergency food

2114
01:32:16,859 --> 01:32:15,730
supply for only $10 were even covering

2115
01:32:18,479 --> 01:32:16,869
the cost of shipping

2116
01:32:21,000 --> 01:32:18,489
are you willing to rely on the

2117
01:32:23,879 --> 01:32:21,010
government and FEMA in the event of an

2118
01:32:26,399 --> 01:32:23,889
emergency call 802 seven two four three

2119
01:32:29,089 --> 01:32:26,409
zero seven zero to get started with your

2120
01:32:31,620 --> 01:32:29,099
72-hour emergency food supply for only

2121
01:32:33,780 --> 01:32:31,630
$10 you won't be able to find this deal

2122
01:32:36,629 --> 01:32:33,790
online and there's a strict limit of

2123
01:32:39,120 --> 01:32:36,639
four per caller so don't wait call now

2124
01:32:42,209 --> 01:32:39,130
800 two seven four three zero seven zero

2125
01:32:48,759 --> 01:32:42,219
that's eight hundred two seven four

2126
01:32:54,189 --> 01:32:51,489
hi my name is Debray suffering from

2127
01:32:56,620 --> 01:32:54,199
migraines having botox injections in my

2128
01:32:58,089 --> 01:32:56,630
head and neck to alleviate pain costing

2129
01:33:01,000 --> 01:32:58,099
fifteen hundred dollars out of my pocket

2130
01:33:03,189 --> 01:33:01,010
I discovered dr. Ortman and gentle touch

2131
01:33:05,739 --> 01:33:03,199
chiropractic adjustment called Nuka I

2132
01:33:07,750 --> 01:33:05,749
migraine free since my first adjustments

2133
01:33:09,370 --> 01:33:07,760
thanks for giving me my life back dr.

2134
01:33:12,009 --> 01:33:09,380
Ortman I wish they prescribed you

2135
01:33:13,750 --> 01:33:12,019
instead of Botox thanks to Ray putting

2136
01:33:16,000 --> 01:33:13,760
the bones back in place is only half of

2137
01:33:18,160 --> 01:33:16,010
the solution we designed a nutritional

2138
01:33:20,319 --> 01:33:18,170
supplement program the body can handle

2139
01:33:23,169 --> 01:33:20,329
I actually absorb providing nutrients

2140
01:33:24,759 --> 01:33:23,179
targeting the problem area between Nuka

2141
01:33:26,500 --> 01:33:24,769
and nutrition we will have you on the

2142
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2148
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2149
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2150
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web at dr. ort ma ENCOM for over five

2151
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years you've been hearing about the

2152
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Berkey guy so you may know a few things

2153
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about him for example you are well aware

2154
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2155
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effectiveness of berkey water filters

2156
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and accessories but did you know the

2157
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2158
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done to prove just how effective they

2159
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are it's true and he can email you the

2160
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test results just visit go Berkey com

2161
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you may also know that the Berkey guy

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2165
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2166
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2168
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2170
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2171
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2174
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2175
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[Music]

2176
01:34:59,410 --> 01:34:57,879
hi this is Ruchika I'm a screenwriter

2177
01:35:01,990 --> 01:34:59,420
producer you're listening to the para

2178
01:35:09,700 --> 01:35:02,000
cast the gold standard of paranormal

2179
01:35:12,580 --> 01:35:09,710
radio Chris O'Brien is taking the week

2180
01:35:14,740 --> 01:35:12,590
off I have Cox Micaiah Zarko host Pat

2181
01:35:16,660 --> 01:35:14,750
fresco Nia it was here earlier he

2182
01:35:18,970 --> 01:35:16,670
defended John Burroughs and a successful

2183
01:35:21,220 --> 01:35:18,980
victory against the VA to get covered of

2184
01:35:23,530 --> 01:35:21,230
the injuries he received a result of the

2185
01:35:26,229 --> 01:35:23,540
Rendlesham encounter we have also Nick

2186
01:35:28,000 --> 01:35:26,239
Pope joining us Nick we had talked about

2187
01:35:29,620 --> 01:35:28,010
this somewhat during our previous

2188
01:35:32,530 --> 01:35:29,630
episode I want to bring it up before we

2189
01:35:35,950 --> 01:35:32,540
get to listen to questions the condign

2190
01:35:37,750 --> 01:35:35,960
report explained to our listeners again

2191
01:35:39,850 --> 01:35:37,760
what it's about because we have a lot of

2192
01:35:40,750 --> 01:35:39,860
new listeners and maybe where we stand

2193
01:35:43,959 --> 01:35:40,760
with it right now

2194
01:35:47,890 --> 01:35:43,969
sure thing well the British Ministry of

2195
01:35:52,780 --> 01:35:47,900
Defence started investigating UFOs

2196
01:35:55,870 --> 01:35:52,790
really in 1953 it's some cases had been

2197
01:35:57,520 --> 01:35:55,880
looked at on an ad-hoc basis before that

2198
01:36:01,000 --> 01:35:57,530
indeed dating back to the Second World

2199
01:36:05,200 --> 01:36:01,010
War but the ministry's UFO project

2200
01:36:08,979 --> 01:36:05,210
formally started in 1953 in the early

2201
01:36:11,919 --> 01:36:08,989
90s when I was on that project one day I

2202
01:36:14,470 --> 01:36:11,929
sat down with my opposite number in the

2203
01:36:17,319 --> 01:36:14,480
Defense Intelligence staff which is

2204
01:36:18,669 --> 01:36:17,329
effectively part of the Ministry of

2205
01:36:21,790 --> 01:36:18,679
Defense dealing with military

2206
01:36:24,609 --> 01:36:21,800
intelligence and we discussed all this

2207
01:36:27,790 --> 01:36:24,619
and we said look over all these years

2208
01:36:31,390 --> 01:36:27,800
we've been investigating UFOs really on

2209
01:36:34,600 --> 01:36:31,400
a case by case basis what we have not

2210
01:36:37,149 --> 01:36:34,610
done or not really done in the sense

2211
01:36:40,720 --> 01:36:37,159
that an intelligence study would do is

2212
01:36:42,819 --> 01:36:40,730
is take a an overview of this a holistic

2213
01:36:46,060 --> 01:36:42,829
view and try and do some things like

2214
01:36:47,919 --> 01:36:46,070
some trend analysis so effectively

2215
01:36:51,580 --> 01:36:47,929
rather than investigating all these

2216
01:36:54,729 --> 01:36:51,590
cases on an ad-hoc basis sit down go

2217
01:36:59,350 --> 01:36:54,739
back through the huge archive of files

2218
01:37:02,620 --> 01:36:59,360
and say let's do a proper in-depth

2219
01:37:05,500 --> 01:37:02,630
scientific and technical intelligence

2220
01:37:08,680 --> 01:37:05,510
study on the UFO phenomenon and see what

2221
01:37:11,320 --> 01:37:08,690
we we think to get funding for this of

2222
01:37:14,260 --> 01:37:11,330
course we had to drop the kind of

2223
01:37:16,840 --> 01:37:14,270
politically loaded term UFO and replace

2224
01:37:18,910 --> 01:37:16,850
it with you ap unidentified aerial

2225
01:37:20,740 --> 01:37:18,920
phenomena and it's interesting to see

2226
01:37:23,440 --> 01:37:20,750
how that's now segwaying

2227
01:37:26,230 --> 01:37:23,450
and walked into the wider UFO community

2228
01:37:28,770 --> 01:37:26,240
and I think that's a good thing so I

2229
01:37:31,690 --> 01:37:28,780
mean yeah that's that's a very long way

2230
01:37:33,960 --> 01:37:31,700
the background was useful in saying it

2231
01:37:37,630 --> 01:37:33,970
is it was a highly classified

2232
01:37:40,480 --> 01:37:37,640
intelligence study on UFOs and when I

2233
01:37:41,710 --> 01:37:40,490
say highly classified it was not just

2234
01:37:44,410 --> 01:37:41,720
highly classified

2235
01:37:47,580 --> 01:37:44,420
it was extremely sensitive and here's

2236
01:37:50,860 --> 01:37:47,590
the reason it would kind of have

2237
01:37:53,080 --> 01:37:50,870
directly and and indeed it did directly

2238
01:37:55,840 --> 01:37:53,090
contradict the line that we were turning

2239
01:37:57,430 --> 01:37:55,850
out to Parliament the media and the

2240
01:37:58,930 --> 01:37:57,440
public remember earlier in the show we

2241
01:38:01,690 --> 01:37:58,940
talked about that there's no defense

2242
01:38:03,930 --> 01:38:01,700
significance sound by well if UFOs

2243
01:38:07,140 --> 01:38:03,940
Willey are of no defense significance

2244
01:38:08,950 --> 01:38:07,150
you sure as heck would not be

2245
01:38:12,310 --> 01:38:08,960
commissioning a highly classified

2246
01:38:14,920 --> 01:38:12,320
intelligence study on it so that's why

2247
01:38:16,960 --> 01:38:14,930
you know we were extremely wary about

2248
01:38:19,930 --> 01:38:16,970
this because it would it would kind of

2249
01:38:22,120 --> 01:38:19,940
say to Parliament and the media hey that

2250
01:38:23,740 --> 01:38:22,130
thing that you say that you don't do and

2251
01:38:26,290 --> 01:38:23,750
that you're not interested in well

2252
01:38:29,980 --> 01:38:26,300
you're up to your eyeballs in it so it

2253
01:38:34,000 --> 01:38:29,990
was a very difficult situation and I was

2254
01:38:36,250 --> 01:38:34,010
actually quite surprised when the study

2255
01:38:38,680 --> 01:38:36,260
was actually Declassified and released

2256
01:38:40,000 --> 01:38:38,690
and although parts of it of course and

2257
01:38:42,040 --> 01:38:40,010
John's been very involved in the

2258
01:38:45,130 --> 01:38:42,050
struggle to get these parts of it out

2259
01:38:47,710 --> 01:38:45,140
parts of it are still blanked out to

2260
01:38:49,540 --> 01:38:47,720
this day but I must say I was surprised

2261
01:38:51,130 --> 01:38:49,550
that thinking him out at all in that

2262
01:38:54,670 --> 01:38:51,140
could we could we make an assumption

2263
01:38:57,160 --> 01:38:54,680
that the parts that are blacked out I

2264
01:38:59,440 --> 01:38:57,170
probably just like methods and sources

2265
01:39:02,350 --> 01:38:59,450
or do you think of some real juicy stuff

2266
01:39:05,680 --> 01:39:02,360
that may have been you know withheld

2267
01:39:08,440 --> 01:39:05,690
from declassification it's a bit of both

2268
01:39:10,300 --> 01:39:08,450
but actually although of course I can't

2269
01:39:14,470 --> 01:39:10,310
tell you what the blanked out bits say

2270
01:39:15,479 --> 01:39:14,480
you can do some pretty good deductions

2271
01:39:18,600 --> 01:39:15,489
on this and the way

2272
01:39:21,270 --> 01:39:18,610
do it is to look at the blacked-out bits

2273
01:39:25,319 --> 01:39:21,280
and it will tell you alongside each

2274
01:39:28,049 --> 01:39:25,329
beard which exemption to the Freedom of

2275
01:39:30,239 --> 01:39:28,059
Information Act has been used to justify

2276
01:39:33,390 --> 01:39:30,249
withholding the information now you can

2277
01:39:36,899 --> 01:39:33,400
go on to any of the UK government

2278
01:39:38,370 --> 01:39:36,909
websites and look at the FOI guidance I

2279
01:39:42,209 --> 01:39:38,380
think the main one is the Ministry of

2280
01:39:44,370 --> 01:39:42,219
Justice website and you can see yeah and

2281
01:39:46,319 --> 01:39:44,380
sure when you check some of the

2282
01:39:48,930 --> 01:39:46,329
information that's been withheld is

2283
01:39:51,720 --> 01:39:48,940
indeed methods and sources but you'll

2284
01:39:53,850 --> 01:39:51,730
find some that falls under the more

2285
01:39:56,580 --> 01:39:53,860
shall we say interesting category is

2286
01:40:00,779 --> 01:39:56,590
like defense and national security and

2287
01:40:03,060 --> 01:40:00,789
clearly what gets to a heart of the law

2288
01:40:06,149 --> 01:40:03,070
a lot of the secrecy and redaction in

2289
01:40:08,729 --> 01:40:06,159
project condign and indeed in the UFO

2290
01:40:12,500 --> 01:40:08,739
phenomenon more generally is the

2291
01:40:15,479 --> 01:40:12,510
extremely contentious issue of

2292
01:40:18,299 --> 01:40:15,489
weaponization of this phenomenon and

2293
01:40:20,430 --> 01:40:18,309
that really does get to the heart of the

2294
01:40:24,270 --> 01:40:20,440
issue i think it's not an area that i

2295
01:40:27,419 --> 01:40:24,280
can say much on aside from point people

2296
01:40:30,089 --> 01:40:27,429
to what has already been declassified in

2297
01:40:33,060 --> 01:40:30,099
project condign final report but it it

2298
01:40:35,279 --> 01:40:33,070
talks about potential military purposes

2299
01:40:36,720 --> 01:40:35,289
that might derive from a better

2300
01:40:38,640 --> 01:40:36,730
understanding of what we're dealing with

2301
01:40:41,729 --> 01:40:38,650
and it talks about everything from

2302
01:40:45,629 --> 01:40:41,739
impulse radars to very high power gen

2303
01:40:48,109 --> 01:40:45,639
energy generation and most interestingly

2304
01:40:50,729 --> 01:40:48,119
of all of course RF weapons a

2305
01:40:52,919 --> 01:40:50,739
directed-energy weapon essentially yeah

2306
01:40:55,290 --> 01:40:52,929
be flabbergasted if maybe you know

2307
01:40:58,160 --> 01:40:55,300
companies like british aerospace or

2308
01:41:01,500 --> 01:40:58,170
kinetic you know these kind of defense

2309
01:41:03,770 --> 01:41:01,510
players i would imagine there would have

2310
01:41:06,870 --> 01:41:03,780
to be some kind of involvement by

2311
01:41:11,729 --> 01:41:06,880
companies like this on the technical

2312
01:41:15,419 --> 01:41:11,739
aspects because you know mining good UFO

2313
01:41:19,439 --> 01:41:15,429
information UAP information like Chris

2314
01:41:21,779 --> 01:41:19,449
O'Brien's mentor ray Stanford that could

2315
01:41:24,419 --> 01:41:21,789
lead us to some huge scientific leaps so

2316
01:41:26,969 --> 01:41:24,429
it would just be ridiculous to believe

2317
01:41:29,560 --> 01:41:26,979
that you know somewhere people aren't

2318
01:41:31,660 --> 01:41:29,570
taking great notice of the

2319
01:41:33,910 --> 01:41:31,670
but obviously and no-one's gonna shout

2320
01:41:36,310 --> 01:41:33,920
about it because technical intelligence

2321
01:41:39,010 --> 01:41:36,320
for the military is of course very

2322
01:41:41,350 --> 01:41:39,020
classified just like it is in the in

2323
01:41:43,270 --> 01:41:41,360
this civilian sector we're not going to

2324
01:41:45,520 --> 01:41:43,280
find out about it but we can be pretty

2325
01:41:47,140 --> 01:41:45,530
sure it's happening I think that's a

2326
01:41:48,879 --> 01:41:47,150
reasonable assumption I think the best

2327
01:41:51,850 --> 01:41:48,889
example you've got of where this

2328
01:41:54,220 --> 01:41:51,860
actually did for a brief moment get out

2329
01:41:56,260 --> 01:41:54,230
into the open the extent to which big

2330
01:41:58,660 --> 01:41:56,270
business is interested in this was when

2331
01:42:02,979 --> 01:41:58,670
the subject got put on the agenda at the

2332
01:42:05,800 --> 01:42:02,989
global competitiveness forum in 2011 in

2333
01:42:08,350 --> 01:42:05,810
Riyadh Saudi Arabia and I attended and

2334
01:42:10,419 --> 01:42:08,360
presented there and I mean just to you

2335
01:42:12,640 --> 01:42:10,429
know this is the Arab world's equivalent

2336
01:42:14,290 --> 01:42:12,650
to the World Economic Forum all the big

2337
01:42:16,750 --> 01:42:14,300
corporations on the face of the planet

2338
01:42:20,260 --> 01:42:16,760
are there Bill Clinton was the keynote

2339
01:42:23,919 --> 01:42:20,270
speaker Tony Blair was also a speaker

2340
01:42:25,959 --> 01:42:23,929
yeah the financial implications of this

2341
01:42:28,300 --> 01:42:25,969
phenomenon were discussed

2342
01:42:29,830 --> 01:42:28,310
not just at the soft end you know people

2343
01:42:32,859 --> 01:42:29,840
talking about things like mining

2344
01:42:35,890 --> 01:42:32,869
asteroids and space tourism but you know

2345
01:42:37,810 --> 01:42:35,900
the the technological biotechnology

2346
01:42:40,510 --> 01:42:37,820
issues that might result from

2347
01:42:42,250 --> 01:42:40,520
discovering extraterrestrial life okay

2348
01:42:44,830 --> 01:42:42,260
do you know we're gonna go through some

2349
01:42:46,959 --> 01:42:44,840
listener questions no I think that's a

2350
01:42:48,370 --> 01:42:46,969
very good idea so we of course always

2351
01:42:50,350 --> 01:42:48,380
ask our listeners when we have a guest

2352
01:42:53,680 --> 01:42:50,360
book or several guests like we did this

2353
01:42:55,000 --> 01:42:53,690
week to ask their questions and we don't

2354
01:42:56,590 --> 01:42:55,010
censor those questions although

2355
01:42:58,840 --> 01:42:56,600
sometimes we have to consolidate them

2356
01:43:01,270 --> 01:42:58,850
but you post them in a place called the

2357
01:43:02,890 --> 01:43:01,280
question Bank that formed out the parent

2358
01:43:05,890 --> 01:43:02,900
caste calm that's formed out the parent

2359
01:43:07,780 --> 01:43:05,900
caste calm we have about four segments

2360
01:43:09,490 --> 01:43:07,790
left with the show and we'd like to

2361
01:43:11,649 --> 01:43:09,500
cover a few of our listener questions

2362
01:43:12,359 --> 01:43:11,659
during it Coggs you have something to

2363
01:43:15,160 --> 01:43:12,369
start with

2364
01:43:18,340 --> 01:43:15,170
yeah firstly I'm going to go to a

2365
01:43:23,950 --> 01:43:18,350
question by psychedelic alchemist who's

2366
01:43:26,530 --> 01:43:23,960
been posting since October 2013 and his

2367
01:43:29,890 --> 01:43:26,540
first question is I have just started

2368
01:43:31,750 --> 01:43:29,900
reading Georgina Bruni's book you can't

2369
01:43:35,200 --> 01:43:31,760
tell the people which I believe is a

2370
01:43:38,109 --> 01:43:35,210
Marc Margaret Thatcher quote and anyway

2371
01:43:40,390 --> 01:43:38,119
and he's curious to know if Nick have

2372
01:43:43,630 --> 01:43:40,400
you read that book and what your opinion

2373
01:43:46,690 --> 01:43:43,640
is of it under sec

2374
01:43:49,510 --> 01:43:46,700
what did John a Nick make of claims that

2375
01:43:51,960 --> 01:43:49,520
were made about alien entities being

2376
01:43:54,430 --> 01:43:51,970
seen in the vicinity of the craft and

2377
01:43:57,490 --> 01:43:54,440
communicating with general Gordon

2378
01:43:59,950 --> 01:43:57,500
Williams can they categorically rule out

2379
01:44:02,800 --> 01:43:59,960
any such thing occurring so for go to

2380
01:44:04,810 --> 01:44:02,810
Nick first about there you can't tell

2381
01:44:07,540 --> 01:44:04,820
the people book and what's your opinion

2382
01:44:09,550 --> 01:44:07,550
on that if you've read it well not only

2383
01:44:10,210 --> 01:44:09,560
have I read it but I wrote the foreword

2384
01:44:12,340 --> 01:44:10,220
to it

2385
01:44:15,370 --> 01:44:12,350
georgina Bruni was a very good friend of

2386
01:44:20,440 --> 01:44:15,380
mine sadly she passed away some years

2387
01:44:22,450 --> 01:44:20,450
ago now but she and I talked a lot when

2388
01:44:25,840 --> 01:44:22,460
she was researching and writing the book

2389
01:44:28,120 --> 01:44:25,850
it is it is an excellent book on the

2390
01:44:31,000 --> 01:44:28,130
subject and and anyone interested in the

2391
01:44:34,120 --> 01:44:31,010
Rendlesham forest incident should should

2392
01:44:37,300 --> 01:44:34,130
certainly try to get hold of a copy of

2393
01:44:39,610 --> 01:44:37,310
it I think clearly encounter in

2394
01:44:42,690 --> 01:44:39,620
Rendlesham forest was written some years

2395
01:44:46,630 --> 01:44:42,700
after you can't tell the people and and

2396
01:44:48,670 --> 01:44:46,640
of course tells predominantly John and

2397
01:44:51,820 --> 01:44:48,680
Jim's story but the wider story of the

2398
01:44:54,610 --> 01:44:51,830
incident from the point of view that

2399
01:44:57,990 --> 01:44:54,620
Georgina of course didn't have at the

2400
01:45:02,050 --> 01:44:58,000
time I mean a when Georgina was writing

2401
01:45:04,960 --> 01:45:02,060
her book for example project condign had

2402
01:45:07,620 --> 01:45:04,970
not been Declassified so encounter in

2403
01:45:11,680 --> 01:45:07,630
Rendlesham forest had that advantage of

2404
01:45:13,960 --> 01:45:11,690
all this supplementary material being

2405
01:45:16,270 --> 01:45:13,970
available let's cover more of that our

2406
01:45:19,000 --> 01:45:16,280
next segment nature hope John Burroughs

2407
01:45:20,820 --> 01:45:19,010
Jean and gongs Makai you're in the

2408
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podcast

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independently leading the way for the

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nation compelling talk for every

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2429
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2430
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forcing taxes to service debt this

2431
01:46:19,979 --> 01:46:18,520
capitalism or was jefferson correct when

2432
01:46:21,630 --> 01:46:19,989
stating a central bank issuing the

2433
01:46:22,740 --> 01:46:21,640
public currency is a greater menace to

2434
01:46:24,479 --> 01:46:22,750
the liberties of the people than a

2435
01:46:25,920 --> 01:46:24,489
standing army hi Ted I understand I'm

2436
01:46:27,750 --> 01:46:25,930
placing a free silver dollar in a book

2437
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that explains our monetary system call

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for your copy 800 686 to 237 it's time

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to understand the system call 866 to 237

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that's 800 686 to 237 don't complain

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about your cable bill going up and up

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2462
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and get more one 855 905 my TV 180 55

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905 my TV welcome back into the Parekh

2464
01:47:57,980 --> 01:47:51,350
assed the gold standard of paranormal

2465
01:48:00,759 --> 01:47:57,990
radio and now here's Jane Steinberg

2466
01:48:03,500 --> 01:48:00,769
[Music]

2467
01:48:05,029 --> 01:48:03,510
with gene and gongs Makai our guest

2468
01:48:07,520 --> 01:48:05,039
co-host this week where you are

2469
01:48:09,649 --> 01:48:07,530
welcoming Nick Pope and John burrows who

2470
01:48:11,239 --> 01:48:09,659
talking of course about the Rendlesham

2471
01:48:14,330 --> 01:48:11,249
case and now we've kind of segue to

2472
01:48:16,609 --> 01:48:14,340
project condign which as Nick mentioned

2473
01:48:19,850 --> 01:48:16,619
our previous segment he was able to

2474
01:48:22,850 --> 01:48:19,860
discuss in more detail in encounter in

2475
01:48:25,759 --> 01:48:22,860
Rendlesham forest Nick so just to wrap

2476
01:48:28,339 --> 01:48:25,769
it up yes absolutely I not only have

2477
01:48:30,560 --> 01:48:28,349
read but was involved in some you know

2478
01:48:32,089 --> 01:48:30,570
research capacity and in view of my

2479
01:48:33,890 --> 01:48:32,099
friendship with Georgina in the writing

2480
01:48:35,870 --> 01:48:33,900
of you can't tell the people it's a

2481
01:48:38,720 --> 01:48:35,880
great book and I thoroughly recommend it

2482
01:48:41,060 --> 01:48:38,730
Nick can you quickly just confirm the

2483
01:48:43,489 --> 01:48:41,070
the quote you can't tell the people was

2484
01:48:49,239 --> 01:48:43,499
a rate interpreting that to Margaret

2485
01:48:51,739 --> 01:48:49,249
Thatcher you were spot-on and they

2486
01:48:54,009 --> 01:48:51,749
shared politics and they they were

2487
01:48:57,830 --> 01:48:54,019
involved in in some of the same

2488
01:48:59,959 --> 01:48:57,840
charities and social functions and

2489
01:49:02,629 --> 01:48:59,969
certainly Georgina had met Margaret

2490
01:49:05,000 --> 01:49:02,639
Thatcher on on several occasions and on

2491
01:49:07,009 --> 01:49:05,010
this one occasion got to discuss with

2492
01:49:08,509 --> 01:49:07,019
her not just the UFO phenomenon but

2493
01:49:11,979 --> 01:49:08,519
specifically the Rendlesham forest

2494
01:49:15,350 --> 01:49:11,989
incident and Margaret Thatcher's quote

2495
01:49:18,140 --> 01:49:15,360
you you can't tell the people and you

2496
01:49:21,529 --> 01:49:18,150
know what exactly that meant perhaps we

2497
01:49:25,040 --> 01:49:21,539
will never know but yes that that remark

2498
01:49:29,810 --> 01:49:25,050
was made to Georgina at at a charity

2499
01:49:32,180 --> 01:49:29,820
function back in I think about 1999 okay

2500
01:49:34,370 --> 01:49:32,190
and then so going back John maybe you

2501
01:49:37,279 --> 01:49:34,380
can start with this the second part of

2502
01:49:40,100 --> 01:49:37,289
the question was talking about claims of

2503
01:49:42,620 --> 01:49:40,110
actual alien entities being seen in the

2504
01:49:44,870 --> 01:49:42,630
vicinity of the craft and a part I

2505
01:49:47,180 --> 01:49:44,880
haven't heard of of communicating with a

2506
01:49:48,680 --> 01:49:47,190
general Gordon Williams I'm not even

2507
01:49:51,470 --> 01:49:48,690
familiar with that name but John maybe

2508
01:49:54,049 --> 01:49:51,480
if you could speak about this sure

2509
01:49:56,270 --> 01:49:54,059
the interesting thing Nick read earlier

2510
01:49:58,790 --> 01:49:56,280
about that statement about the radiation

2511
01:50:00,560 --> 01:49:58,800
it also goes a little further and says

2512
01:50:02,149 --> 01:50:00,570
people aren't even aware how it's

2513
01:50:03,560 --> 01:50:02,159
affecting them there were there was a

2514
01:50:05,600 --> 01:50:03,570
lot of different people that saw

2515
01:50:08,060 --> 01:50:05,610
different things and each one of them

2516
01:50:10,849 --> 01:50:08,070
saw it a little bit differently the

2517
01:50:13,489 --> 01:50:10,859
actual point you're pointing at is

2518
01:50:16,849 --> 01:50:13,499
and I'm gonna kind of how do I want to

2519
01:50:18,739 --> 01:50:16,859
word this the person that has been

2520
01:50:21,229 --> 01:50:18,749
accused of saying that Larry Warren says

2521
01:50:24,229 --> 01:50:21,239
he didn't say it like that what he

2522
01:50:26,719 --> 01:50:24,239
claims he said was the only way he could

2523
01:50:29,329 --> 01:50:26,729
describe it was possibly beans and that

2524
01:50:30,889 --> 01:50:29,339
was put out on the CNN piece um within

2525
01:50:32,899 --> 01:50:30,899
that CNN piece there's another

2526
01:50:34,429 --> 01:50:32,909
individual he always gets misidentified

2527
01:50:36,770 --> 01:50:34,439
as sorry Ghoulia's but it was actually

2528
01:50:38,389 --> 01:50:36,780
sergeant ball so within the blue lights

2529
01:50:41,959 --> 01:50:38,399
you could have seen some kind of life

2530
01:50:45,379 --> 01:50:41,969
form so to say that what was out there

2531
01:50:46,549 --> 01:50:45,389
couldn't have been intelligence not you

2532
01:50:47,540 --> 01:50:46,559
can't say it didn't a matter of fact

2533
01:50:50,000 --> 01:50:47,550
colonel all that's going on the record

2534
01:50:52,520 --> 01:50:50,010
saying it's from somewhere else it's et

2535
01:50:55,459 --> 01:50:52,530
showed intelligence the ability to move

2536
01:50:57,709 --> 01:50:55,469
and intelligence a con Diana says it

2537
01:51:00,319 --> 01:50:57,719
shows the ability to do things and and

2538
01:51:03,439 --> 01:51:00,329
shows intelligence so the big question

2539
01:51:06,709 --> 01:51:03,449
is is what exactly which is still being

2540
01:51:09,229 --> 01:51:06,719
worked on exactly what is what it really

2541
01:51:12,079 --> 01:51:09,239
is where can we trace it back to and

2542
01:51:14,209 --> 01:51:12,089
that really isn't it condign and that is

2543
01:51:15,979 --> 01:51:14,219
still hasn't been totally disclosed yet

2544
01:51:17,719 --> 01:51:15,989
but I will say one more thing Edgar

2545
01:51:20,329 --> 01:51:17,729
Mitchell did an interview with an

2546
01:51:22,429 --> 01:51:20,339
English guy a few years ago on English

2547
01:51:24,139 --> 01:51:22,439
radio and he kind of gave away some of

2548
01:51:25,759 --> 01:51:24,149
the goods in a ten minute clip where he

2549
01:51:27,619 --> 01:51:25,769
talked about the you know that he knows

2550
01:51:30,319 --> 01:51:27,629
we've been visited by the phenomena he

2551
01:51:32,479 --> 01:51:30,329
knows it's real and they haven't he did

2552
01:51:34,339 --> 01:51:32,489
say they haven't identified outside our

2553
01:51:36,109 --> 01:51:34,349
you know outside of earth where it's

2554
01:51:38,569 --> 01:51:36,119
coming from but there's no doubt there's

2555
01:51:40,099 --> 01:51:38,579
a phenomena and not only that in condign

2556
01:51:42,619 --> 01:51:40,109
it goes into about how they use the

2557
01:51:45,229 --> 01:51:42,629
astronauts and other people to study

2558
01:51:46,969 --> 01:51:45,239
this and be evolved in the study and I

2559
01:51:49,189 --> 01:51:46,979
believe mr. Mitchell was one of those

2560
01:51:53,560 --> 01:51:49,199
people that was involved in it okay I'm

2561
01:51:57,319 --> 01:51:53,570
gonna go to question from burnt State

2562
01:52:02,149 --> 01:51:57,329
aka Robert who has been on the show and

2563
01:52:04,089 --> 01:52:02,159
is one of our frequent posters I'm going

2564
01:52:09,109 --> 01:52:04,099
to go to his second question actually

2565
01:52:11,569 --> 01:52:09,119
and it is as follows we know that memory

2566
01:52:14,299 --> 01:52:11,579
is a very tricky thing and that we

2567
01:52:17,599 --> 01:52:14,309
really just remember the details of the

2568
01:52:19,790 --> 01:52:17,609
last time we remember something so this

2569
01:52:22,339 --> 01:52:19,800
would be for John how have you come to

2570
01:52:24,590 --> 01:52:22,349
terms with the many complex memories

2571
01:52:26,240 --> 01:52:24,600
that have unfolded for you and

2572
01:52:28,550 --> 01:52:26,250
you ever feel some things that the

2573
01:52:32,120 --> 01:52:28,560
events that took place have been altered

2574
01:52:34,430 --> 01:52:32,130
or shifted in any way by the very act of

2575
01:52:36,890 --> 01:52:34,440
remembering just like an al iterative

2576
01:52:39,200 --> 01:52:36,900
process of like all the times you've

2577
01:52:41,540 --> 01:52:39,210
thought about it maybe things are being

2578
01:52:43,430 --> 01:52:41,550
subtracted and nodded do you ever doubt

2579
01:52:45,680 --> 01:52:43,440
what happened to you or feel that your

2580
01:52:47,780 --> 01:52:45,690
own mind has altered or imbued

2581
01:52:49,220 --> 01:52:47,790
experience with elements and feelings

2582
01:52:51,350 --> 01:52:49,230
that were not actually present

2583
01:52:53,120 --> 01:52:51,360
originally a bit of a mouthful that

2584
01:52:54,650 --> 01:52:53,130
question but I think I think you can see

2585
01:52:55,700 --> 01:52:54,660
what it was going I guess some other

2586
01:52:58,250 --> 01:52:55,710
pretty quickly what he's basically

2587
01:53:00,110 --> 01:52:58,260
implying was as the years have gone on

2588
01:53:03,140 --> 01:53:00,120
it seems like different people have

2589
01:53:05,210 --> 01:53:03,150
added more to the story and does my

2590
01:53:07,700 --> 01:53:05,220
interviews and stuff you know as far as

2591
01:53:09,980 --> 01:53:07,710
has what I've said changed no I've stuck

2592
01:53:11,360 --> 01:53:09,990
to the same story from day one I am at

2593
01:53:13,070 --> 01:53:11,370
affect I was the one that got the dates

2594
01:53:15,020 --> 01:53:13,080
right when they were who were wrong in

2595
01:53:16,820 --> 01:53:15,030
the memo and other people were reporting

2596
01:53:19,760 --> 01:53:16,830
the dates wrong I was the one that got

2597
01:53:21,710 --> 01:53:19,770
the time right I was the one that stood

2598
01:53:23,600 --> 01:53:21,720
by the fact that I never did see Jim

2599
01:53:27,590 --> 01:53:23,610
walk around it never and never have said

2600
01:53:29,540 --> 01:53:27,600
I did never never will okay so my story

2601
01:53:30,980 --> 01:53:29,550
stayed the same now I've been under

2602
01:53:33,560 --> 01:53:30,990
hypnosis there's some things that come

2603
01:53:35,450 --> 01:53:33,570
out of hypnosis that that actually can

2604
01:53:37,010 --> 01:53:35,460
fill in some of the missing blanks but

2605
01:53:38,420 --> 01:53:37,020
I've been very careful to say the

2606
01:53:40,580 --> 01:53:38,430
difference between what I remember what

2607
01:53:43,880 --> 01:53:40,590
I don't okay and I've never changed my

2608
01:53:45,950 --> 01:53:43,890
story I've never felt that it's made my

2609
01:53:47,870 --> 01:53:45,960
story made me feel different about what

2610
01:53:49,520 --> 01:53:47,880
happened to me other than the actual

2611
01:53:51,890 --> 01:53:49,530
evidence that has been uncovered now

2612
01:53:53,930 --> 01:53:51,900
fills in a lot of the missing pieces to

2613
01:53:55,940 --> 01:53:53,940
what I feel happened to us now one of

2614
01:53:58,100 --> 01:53:55,950
the concerns I've had and I don't know

2615
01:54:00,770 --> 01:53:58,110
about cogs in his opinion but Chris

2616
01:54:03,290 --> 01:54:00,780
O'Brien also shares this with me when

2617
01:54:05,990 --> 01:54:03,300
you have some episodes of hypnotic

2618
01:54:08,300 --> 01:54:06,000
treatment like regression there's a

2619
01:54:11,030 --> 01:54:08,310
danger of contaminating one's memories

2620
01:54:12,590 --> 01:54:11,040
of an event so easy to do that were you

2621
01:54:14,570 --> 01:54:12,600
ever worried about this before you

2622
01:54:16,700 --> 01:54:14,580
underwent hypnosis to recover some

2623
01:54:18,350 --> 01:54:16,710
details not totally I was more worried

2624
01:54:20,030 --> 01:54:18,360
about what might come out because I felt

2625
01:54:22,040 --> 01:54:20,040
that that was that there was clearly I

2626
01:54:23,630 --> 01:54:22,050
couldn't remember a lot of this stuff so

2627
01:54:25,520 --> 01:54:23,640
I was concerned what might come out now

2628
01:54:27,260 --> 01:54:25,530
that was a valid concern because the

2629
01:54:29,240 --> 01:54:27,270
bunch of stuff came out now the one

2630
01:54:31,400 --> 01:54:29,250
thing I will say is what came out of

2631
01:54:32,930 --> 01:54:31,410
hypnosis is this kind of shot

2632
01:54:34,730 --> 01:54:32,940
earth-shattering and it shakes you up

2633
01:54:36,230 --> 01:54:34,740
matter fact some of the skeptics have

2634
01:54:36,800 --> 01:54:36,240
even said they tried to point out well

2635
01:54:39,200 --> 01:54:36,810
in

2636
01:54:41,510 --> 01:54:39,210
ever says that you know he saw craft I

2637
01:54:43,400 --> 01:54:41,520
never have ever said I saw crap it gets

2638
01:54:45,110 --> 01:54:43,410
labeled into it what I saw was lights

2639
01:54:45,800 --> 01:54:45,120
and I've given a description of the

2640
01:54:47,810 --> 01:54:45,810
lights okay

2641
01:54:49,490 --> 01:54:47,820
and even the hypnosis I don't have

2642
01:54:50,930 --> 01:54:49,500
memories in other words I know what I

2643
01:54:52,850 --> 01:54:50,940
said under hypnosis but that doesn't

2644
01:54:55,670 --> 01:54:52,860
mean me back oh yeah now I remember that

2645
01:54:57,650 --> 01:54:55,680
now I remember this no and I'm a very

2646
01:54:59,870 --> 01:54:57,660
maybe very share what little has been

2647
01:55:02,120 --> 01:54:59,880
put out on my hypnosis that I made clear

2648
01:55:04,820 --> 01:55:02,130
that this is what came out under

2649
01:55:06,770 --> 01:55:04,830
hypnosis and yes it does seem to fill in

2650
01:55:08,000 --> 01:55:06,780
some of the pieces but it doesn't jar my

2651
01:55:10,040 --> 01:55:08,010
memory of what I read you know I

2652
01:55:12,710 --> 01:55:10,050
actually remember never has never will

2653
01:55:15,500 --> 01:55:12,720
it did help me look at some things for

2654
01:55:16,850 --> 01:55:15,510
evidence which believe it or not that's

2655
01:55:19,190 --> 01:55:16,860
what's led to a lot of what I've

2656
01:55:22,220 --> 01:55:19,200
uncovered and it's verifiable evidence

2657
01:55:23,540 --> 01:55:22,230
it's not evidence like even mj-12 where

2658
01:55:26,840 --> 01:55:23,550
they can discredit it like Nick said

2659
01:55:29,990 --> 01:55:26,850
these documents condign are on the mo d

2660
01:55:31,640 --> 01:55:30,000
webpage they're real and it's actual and

2661
01:55:33,350 --> 01:55:31,650
one other thing that helped me with it

2662
01:55:35,360 --> 01:55:33,360
helped me get some FOIA stuff answered

2663
01:55:39,320 --> 01:55:35,370
where I caught the British government in

2664
01:55:41,600 --> 01:55:39,330
a lie who administered this hypnosis I'm

2665
01:55:43,040 --> 01:55:41,610
not gonna divulge his name because he's

2666
01:55:45,650 --> 01:55:43,050
never given me permission to do that but

2667
01:55:47,660 --> 01:55:45,660
it was done back in the 80s one of the

2668
01:55:50,120 --> 01:55:47,670
cases was done back in the 80s early on

2669
01:55:51,980 --> 01:55:50,130
and it was done by some interesting

2670
01:55:53,720 --> 01:55:51,990
people that go back to actually the

2671
01:55:56,570 --> 01:55:53,730
intelligence world and we found out

2672
01:55:59,150 --> 01:55:56,580
later on did the person who did this

2673
01:56:01,040 --> 01:55:59,160
hypnosis did that person have a

2674
01:56:02,990 --> 01:56:01,050
background in doing UFO research

2675
01:56:05,120 --> 01:56:03,000
specifically abduction research or not

2676
01:56:10,070 --> 01:56:05,130
no he was actually a person that was

2677
01:56:12,290 --> 01:56:10,080
solved in please work ok on that a very

2678
01:56:15,980 --> 01:56:12,300
important point yes it's important to

2679
01:56:18,560 --> 01:56:15,990
stress that there are problems that can

2680
01:56:20,570 --> 01:56:18,570
result from regression hypnosis and it's

2681
01:56:23,120 --> 01:56:20,580
it's an extremely controversial subject

2682
01:56:26,600 --> 01:56:23,130
let's not forget though that project

2683
01:56:29,120 --> 01:56:26,610
condign states that memories are being

2684
01:56:31,330 --> 01:56:29,130
scrambled not by regression hypnosis but

2685
01:56:34,370 --> 01:56:31,340
by exposure to the phenomenon itself

2686
01:56:36,470 --> 01:56:34,380
this is both in the executive summary

2687
01:56:40,910 --> 01:56:36,480
and for anyone who wants to drill down

2688
01:56:43,490 --> 01:56:40,920
into it volume 2 nxf working paper 1 and

2689
01:56:46,250 --> 01:56:43,500
it talks about it's under headings like

2690
01:56:49,520 --> 01:56:46,260
non ionizing electromagnetic effects on

2691
01:56:49,820 --> 01:56:49,530
humans and electromagnetic feel from

2692
01:56:51,560 --> 01:56:49,830
apply

2693
01:56:54,410 --> 01:56:51,570
asthma and it actually talks about

2694
01:56:57,710 --> 01:56:54,420
memory and perception being modified by

2695
01:57:02,090 --> 01:56:57,720
the phenomenon so so you know again

2696
01:57:03,980 --> 01:57:02,100
there's a tangible kind of a Frank to

2697
01:57:06,020 --> 01:57:03,990
here way before you get into the

2698
01:57:07,270 --> 01:57:06,030
question of someone going and getting

2699
01:57:10,340 --> 01:57:07,280
hypnotized

2700
01:57:12,440 --> 01:57:10,350
we've got Nick Pope John Burroughs

2701
01:57:15,290 --> 01:57:12,450
remember to go to plus stop the power

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cast com+ stop the power cast calm and

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Byway if you sign up for a limited time

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from Chris O'Brien that's for either one

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dot the para cast comm with Gene and

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gongs you're in the podcast neighbors

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gene when you check out hi this is Steve

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spill them for Midas resources in 1971

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President Nixon took the united states

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off the gold standard and put us into a

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fiat currency this allowed Congress and

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the Federal Reserve to create trillions

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of dollars out of thin air the national

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debt has risen to incredible Heights in

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your hard-earned dollars by a small

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fraction of what they once did the

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currency is 27 years the dollars failing

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and on bar

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time when currencies fall people turn to

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gold and silver because gold and silver

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have been real money for more than five

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thousand years it is our mission at

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Midas resources to help you preserve

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your capital don't let your personal

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savings shrink to nothing for important

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free information on how you can protect

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your personal wealth contact me Steve

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spill them at 1-866-37 extension 308

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call today while we are still accepting

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dollars for gold and silver 1-866 to 237

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extension 308 make a change in financial

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something about it grab a pencil and jot

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call 185 905 my TV one eight five five

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the pH to a healthy level alkalizing

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of your body disease organisms like

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bacteria viruses and cancer cannot

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0 9 1776 2 6 9 4 0 9 1776 today we'd

2806
02:01:44,990 --> 02:01:43,020
like to hear from you if you have a

2807
02:01:48,680 --> 02:01:45,000
comment or question about the para caste

2808
02:01:52,250 --> 02:01:48,690
sent it to news at the para caste calm

2809
02:01:54,410 --> 02:01:52,260
that's news at the para caste calm and

2810
02:01:57,760 --> 02:01:54,420
don't forget to visit our famous para

2811
02:02:02,870 --> 02:01:57,770
caste community forums at forum dot the

2812
02:02:04,729 --> 02:02:02,880
podcast.com gene and gongs here we're

2813
02:02:07,820 --> 02:02:04,739
talking with john burroughs and nick

2814
02:02:11,030 --> 02:02:07,830
pope very quickly to go to plus dr.

2815
02:02:13,910 --> 02:02:11,040
Peric ascom sign up for a year or more

2816
02:02:16,160 --> 02:02:13,920
of the power cast plus we get you a copy

2817
02:02:18,439 --> 02:02:16,170
of stalking the tricksters by Chris

2818
02:02:21,500 --> 02:02:18,449
O'Brien he also has another book to give

2819
02:02:23,360 --> 02:02:21,510
away secrets of the mysterious valley

2820
02:02:25,580 --> 02:02:23,370
you get that by signing up for our free

2821
02:02:27,470 --> 02:02:25,590
newsletter at the power cast icon that's

2822
02:02:28,959 --> 02:02:27,480
the power cast on it comes scoggs you

2823
02:02:32,140 --> 02:02:28,969
got more questions from our listeners

2824
02:02:35,270 --> 02:02:32,150
yes Gina I'm gonna go to a question from

2825
02:02:39,380 --> 02:02:35,280
Blowfish also known as keV who's been

2826
02:02:43,300 --> 02:02:39,390
posting since 2010 I'm gonna amalgamate

2827
02:02:49,010 --> 02:02:43,310
part of this questions 2 & 3 and this is

2828
02:02:51,140 --> 02:02:49,020
directed for Nick and it's basically mr.

2829
02:02:53,900 --> 02:02:51,150
Nick Pope during your service and the

2830
02:02:56,240 --> 02:02:53,910
British forces I think we're putting

2831
02:02:58,729 --> 02:02:56,250
even more are killed did you ever feel

2832
02:03:01,790 --> 02:02:58,739
your investigations were stonewalled and

2833
02:03:05,030 --> 02:03:01,800
did you have access to radar data from

2834
02:03:08,770 --> 02:03:05,040
NATO bases or questioned individual

2835
02:03:11,479 --> 02:03:08,780
servicemen and women service women NATO

2836
02:03:14,290 --> 02:03:11,489
Liberty NATO personnel sorry sis the way

2837
02:03:16,610 --> 02:03:14,300
it's worded regarding UFO cases on

2838
02:03:19,910 --> 02:03:16,620
operational matters I think he's asking

2839
02:03:21,950 --> 02:03:19,920
basically were you ever stonewalled did

2840
02:03:24,810 --> 02:03:21,960
you have access to radar data from

2841
02:03:27,390 --> 02:03:24,820
multiple NATO bases

2842
02:03:29,370 --> 02:03:27,400
did you ever meet any other nations

2843
02:03:31,830 --> 02:03:29,380
officers outside NATO

2844
02:03:33,959 --> 02:03:31,840
your counterparts that feel like who

2845
02:03:38,069 --> 02:03:33,969
investigated UFOs

2846
02:03:42,359 --> 02:03:38,079
well radar was an integral part of the

2847
02:03:46,050 --> 02:03:42,369
UFO project all the UFO sightings that

2848
02:03:49,350 --> 02:03:46,060
we investigated were sent in parallel to

2849
02:03:52,859 --> 02:03:49,360
the Ministry of Defense's radar experts

2850
02:03:54,600 --> 02:03:52,869
and tapes would be checked to see where

2851
02:03:58,080 --> 02:03:54,610
the visual sightings could be correlated

2852
02:04:01,229 --> 02:03:58,090
by radar so that was primarily Royal Air

2853
02:04:03,629 --> 02:04:01,239
Force but yes certainly on occasion I

2854
02:04:06,750 --> 02:04:03,639
mean we the whole point about radar is

2855
02:04:10,399 --> 02:04:06,760
that it's an integrated chain so yeah we

2856
02:04:13,950 --> 02:04:10,409
would absolutely have access to NATO

2857
02:04:15,990 --> 02:04:13,960
radar bases too if we needed them and

2858
02:04:18,470 --> 02:04:16,000
indeed on some occasions we even went

2859
02:04:22,500 --> 02:04:18,480
outside the UK and and inquired about

2860
02:04:24,870 --> 02:04:22,510
other nations where friendly nations

2861
02:04:26,399 --> 02:04:24,880
allies had interesting cases that would

2862
02:04:29,879 --> 02:04:26,409
have a bearing on our own I mean for

2863
02:04:34,800 --> 02:04:29,889
example we on the wave of sightings in

2864
02:04:36,390 --> 02:04:34,810
Belgium in 1989-1990 in 1993 because we

2865
02:04:39,120 --> 02:04:36,400
had some very similar sightings in the

2866
02:04:41,850 --> 02:04:39,130
UK we I actually went through our

2867
02:04:44,580 --> 02:04:41,860
military attache and in the British

2868
02:04:47,069 --> 02:04:44,590
Embassy in Brussels to speak to the

2869
02:04:50,040 --> 02:04:47,079
Belgian Air Force about this and we

2870
02:04:52,859 --> 02:04:50,050
interviewed the chief of staff of the

2871
02:04:55,530 --> 02:04:52,869
Belgian Air Force general wilfred de

2872
02:04:58,560 --> 02:04:55,540
Brouwer and the two f-16 pilots who were

2873
02:05:02,850 --> 02:04:58,570
scrambled to intercept a UFO on the

2874
02:05:05,939 --> 02:05:02,860
night of march 30th and 31st 1990 so

2875
02:05:06,750 --> 02:05:05,949
yeah we absolutely could get access to

2876
02:05:09,359 --> 02:05:06,760
that data

2877
02:05:11,939 --> 02:05:09,369
and reach out to people was I

2878
02:05:13,859 --> 02:05:11,949
stonewalled I I don't think so on

2879
02:05:16,649 --> 02:05:13,869
occasion I came up against people in the

2880
02:05:20,490 --> 02:05:16,659
chain of command who who were skeptical

2881
02:05:24,000 --> 02:05:20,500
about this or who were perhaps overly

2882
02:05:26,520 --> 02:05:24,010
defensive that if we were kind of caught

2883
02:05:28,890 --> 02:05:26,530
if I can use that phrase if we were

2884
02:05:31,439 --> 02:05:28,900
caught doing too much of this it would

2885
02:05:33,000 --> 02:05:31,449
make our public position you know that

2886
02:05:35,100 --> 02:05:33,010
we're not really interested in this we

2887
02:05:37,049 --> 02:05:35,110
don't really investigate much it's all

2888
02:05:38,669 --> 02:05:37,059
of no defence significance it would make

2889
02:05:41,069 --> 02:05:38,679
it all that it would be rather difficult

2890
02:05:44,549 --> 02:05:41,079
got to explain so so I came up against

2891
02:05:47,009 --> 02:05:44,559
kind of defensiveness of getting too

2892
02:05:49,859 --> 02:05:47,019
involved or rather getting caught being

2893
02:05:51,839 --> 02:05:49,869
too involved but not not stonewalling I

2894
02:05:54,419 --> 02:05:51,849
don't think so okay Nick I've got a

2895
02:05:58,439 --> 02:05:54,429
personal addition to Kev's

2896
02:05:59,419 --> 02:05:58,449
question there you'll know of course the

2897
02:06:02,810 --> 02:05:59,429
Pitlochry

2898
02:06:06,839 --> 02:06:02,820
diamond-shaped UFO case that I believe

2899
02:06:10,229 --> 02:06:06,849
you used to have a picture of taken by

2900
02:06:14,339 --> 02:06:10,239
couple of Hill walkers I believe in this

2901
02:06:17,279 --> 02:06:14,349
picture there was unsuitably an RAF jet

2902
02:06:22,469 --> 02:06:17,289
possibly a hot-air or something did you

2903
02:06:25,500 --> 02:06:22,479
ever get to interview the pilot of that

2904
02:06:26,040 --> 02:06:25,510
aircraft if I'm remembering the case

2905
02:06:29,640 --> 02:06:26,050
correctly

2906
02:06:33,719 --> 02:06:29,650
no I didn't this case was the the case

2907
02:06:36,479 --> 02:06:33,729
had actually occurred in August of 1990

2908
02:06:38,729 --> 02:06:36,489
when the photos were sent in to us so it

2909
02:06:40,979 --> 02:06:38,739
was my predecessor on the UFO project

2910
02:06:42,779 --> 02:06:40,989
who investigated this I don't know

2911
02:06:45,810 --> 02:06:42,789
whether he interviewed the pilot or not

2912
02:06:49,140 --> 02:06:45,820
in fact from memory I believe there was

2913
02:06:51,529 --> 02:06:49,150
even a problem tracing the aircraft

2914
02:06:53,939 --> 02:06:51,539
though you're quite correct it was

2915
02:06:56,609 --> 02:06:53,949
thought to be a Harrier from the

2916
02:06:59,100 --> 02:06:56,619
photographic analysis we did yeah this

2917
02:07:01,140 --> 02:06:59,110
this photo was on our office wall for

2918
02:07:03,689 --> 02:07:01,150
many years and then it was removed

2919
02:07:05,339 --> 02:07:03,699
because my head of division had

2920
02:07:09,359 --> 02:07:05,349
convinced himself rightly or wrongly

2921
02:07:12,540 --> 02:07:09,369
that it showed some secret prototype spy

2922
02:07:16,890 --> 02:07:12,550
plane or drone that that we shouldn't

2923
02:07:18,299 --> 02:07:16,900
have seen but I mean I again I discussed

2924
02:07:20,129 --> 02:07:18,309
this with my opposite number and the

2925
02:07:22,799 --> 02:07:20,139
Defence Intelligence staff and we would

2926
02:07:25,290 --> 02:07:22,809
clear this was this was no spy plane or

2927
02:07:27,660 --> 02:07:25,300
drone I mean this this was like nothing

2928
02:07:29,850 --> 02:07:27,670
any of us had seen before and I mean

2929
02:07:32,520 --> 02:07:29,860
when when an intelligence expert with

2930
02:07:34,469 --> 02:07:32,530
specialism in that area says no it's not

2931
02:07:37,319 --> 02:07:34,479
an aircraft or drone you haven't got

2932
02:07:39,660 --> 02:07:37,329
many places left to go I could just

2933
02:07:42,089 --> 02:07:39,670
picture you feet in your desk looking up

2934
02:07:44,149 --> 02:07:42,099
at this picture in a kind of Fox Mulder

2935
02:07:47,459 --> 02:07:44,159
was thinking you know I want to believe

2936
02:07:49,649 --> 02:07:47,469
it was it was very funny because we had

2937
02:07:51,870 --> 02:07:49,659
it on the wall on and on occasion people

2938
02:07:53,340 --> 02:07:51,880
would come in to our office and

2939
02:07:55,500 --> 02:07:53,350
start discussing something and then

2940
02:07:57,540 --> 02:07:55,510
you'd see their eyes beginning to wander

2941
02:07:59,310 --> 02:07:57,550
and then after a while they would just

2942
02:08:02,820 --> 02:07:59,320
say I'm sorry I have to ask what the

2943
02:08:05,940 --> 02:08:02,830
hell is that it's a case that doesn't

2944
02:08:09,120 --> 02:08:05,950
really seem to get much publicity even

2945
02:08:11,820 --> 02:08:09,130
here in the UK I I think maybe there are

2946
02:08:14,250 --> 02:08:11,830
not too many details available but it's

2947
02:08:16,200 --> 02:08:14,260
by what even by what you're just telling

2948
02:08:21,800 --> 02:08:16,210
us just now sounds like a fascinating

2949
02:08:25,440 --> 02:08:21,810
case yes my website called the Calvin

2950
02:08:28,320 --> 02:08:25,450
incident the wit which goes into some of

2951
02:08:29,550 --> 02:08:28,330
the details and ironically actually

2952
02:08:31,860 --> 02:08:29,560
though I can't talk about this because

2953
02:08:33,480 --> 02:08:31,870
it's all commercially confidential until

2954
02:08:35,550 --> 02:08:33,490
it's out there I'm actually filming a TV

2955
02:08:36,930 --> 02:08:35,560
interview about this case probably in

2956
02:08:39,420 --> 02:08:36,940
about three weeks the time so

2957
02:08:43,080 --> 02:08:39,430
fortunately there is maybe some media

2958
02:08:45,720 --> 02:08:43,090
interest in this building just a sports

2959
02:08:48,060 --> 02:08:45,730
going back to the stonewalling I I find

2960
02:08:51,000 --> 02:08:48,070
it very difficult to believe that your

2961
02:08:54,150 --> 02:08:51,010
predecessor would be unable to locate a

2962
02:08:57,690 --> 02:08:54,160
pilot of a Xavier considering how big

2963
02:09:00,540 --> 02:08:57,700
the UK is how many raf pieces would have

2964
02:09:03,480 --> 02:09:00,550
squadrons of partiers or even Royal Navy

2965
02:09:05,520 --> 02:09:03,490
because I know I served myself that's

2966
02:09:07,170 --> 02:09:05,530
you know it shouldn't be hard if you

2967
02:09:09,300 --> 02:09:07,180
have a date for something it shouldn't

2968
02:09:12,060 --> 02:09:09,310
be hard to find a pilot who would have

2969
02:09:14,310 --> 02:09:12,070
been scrambled or maybe currently on an

2970
02:09:16,190 --> 02:09:14,320
exercise at the time I find that hard to

2971
02:09:19,020 --> 02:09:16,200
believe

2972
02:09:21,270 --> 02:09:19,030
I share your view

2973
02:09:23,940 --> 02:09:21,280
yeah the implication is then you know

2974
02:09:27,480 --> 02:09:23,950
that there was a bit of a no don't go

2975
02:09:31,440 --> 02:09:27,490
there maybe I is a reasonable inference

2976
02:09:33,660 --> 02:09:31,450
to draw yet yeah I would continuing with

2977
02:09:35,670 --> 02:09:33,670
questions let's do our break first

2978
02:09:36,690 --> 02:09:35,680
before we do that all right we'll go

2979
02:09:38,850 --> 02:09:36,700
into break in a moment

2980
02:09:40,830 --> 02:09:38,860
and give her everybody a chance to take

2981
02:09:43,620 --> 02:09:40,840
a deep breath our guest this week

2982
02:09:46,110 --> 02:09:43,630
include John burrows who of course was

2983
02:09:49,170 --> 02:09:46,120
one of the witnesses in the Rendlesham

2984
02:09:51,780 --> 02:09:49,180
forest UFO case back in 1980 we have

2985
02:09:54,210 --> 02:09:51,790
Nick Pope of course head of the UFO desk

2986
02:09:57,090 --> 02:09:54,220
at the UK Ministry of Defence and now

2987
02:09:59,430 --> 02:09:57,100
has gone on to civilian life and been

2988
02:10:02,490 --> 02:09:59,440
quite successful we have dogs makai our

2989
02:10:05,229 --> 02:10:02,500
guest co-host who is standing in or

2990
02:10:07,330 --> 02:10:05,239
sitting in for Chris O'Brien

2991
02:10:09,700 --> 02:10:07,340
whose off this week but we'll be back

2992
02:10:11,680 --> 02:10:09,710
next week and we're going to have GOx by

2993
02:10:14,080 --> 02:10:11,690
the way do the after the para cast

2994
02:10:16,750 --> 02:10:14,090
podcast with me which he's heard before

2995
02:10:23,430 --> 02:10:16,760
but now it cemented that thing with gene

2996
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[Music]

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independently leading the way for the

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nation compelling talk for every

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cameras or from scanners need to do some

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wrong but every time you think about

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calling an attorney

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what are you forced to think about first

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without a bill would you call worry less

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than live more with LS protection calm

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to case what good is a big berkey water

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we get that question a lot here at big

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you for making my job so much easier

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because your products just make it so

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simple Ryan fooled around with a lot of

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a month your product and things start to

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what is doing there's so much garlic in

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there that have a yeast killing effect

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the yeast is a big problem in the gut

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pushes the liver heart and also as metal

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herbs in there - strengthen the arteries

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they help to neutralize free radicals

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your RAAM is close to what we do in our

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program as you can get as far as one

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supplement goes it's working on the gut

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it's working on the liver working on the

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arteries what more can you ask for to

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get your extender bite call one eight

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seven seven nine two eight eight eight

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this is the wrong flower cluster of the

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f1 cycle beat in other books when you're

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[Music]

3104
02:15:04,160 --> 02:15:01,950
GOx Makai is my co-host this week Chris

3105
02:15:06,800 --> 02:15:04,170
O'Brien took a week off we have John

3106
02:15:09,290 --> 02:15:06,810
Burroughs Nick Pope earlier on we had

3107
02:15:12,080 --> 02:15:09,300
Patrick fresco Nia the attorney who

3108
02:15:14,630 --> 02:15:12,090
defended John to get him his benefits

3109
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from the VA and anytime you have to cope

3110
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with government bureaucracy especially

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the besieged US agency the Veterans

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02:15:24,920 --> 02:15:22,860
Administration you know more power to

3113
02:15:26,930 --> 02:15:24,930
him he didn't ask for a ton of money he

3114
02:15:27,650 --> 02:15:26,940
just did it because it was the right

3115
02:15:29,270 --> 02:15:27,660
thing to do

3116
02:15:32,210 --> 02:15:29,280
cogs you have some more questions from

3117
02:15:34,700 --> 02:15:32,220
listeners yeah I'll quickly just give a

3118
02:15:38,960 --> 02:15:34,710
little announcement to possibly new

3119
02:15:42,020 --> 02:15:38,970
listeners that if you want to be giving

3120
02:15:45,050 --> 02:15:42,030
questions for Jeanne and Chris and which

3121
02:15:47,630 --> 02:15:45,060
will be at 4:00 and dot the podcast com

3122
02:15:50,810 --> 02:15:47,640
if you kind of check in with the forum

3123
02:15:53,090 --> 02:15:50,820
early in the week sometimes there's only

3124
02:15:56,000 --> 02:15:53,100
a little bit of notice a day or two

3125
02:15:59,510 --> 02:15:56,010
about an upcoming guest and that's the

3126
02:16:00,920 --> 02:15:59,520
time to get your questions in so if you

3127
02:16:02,780 --> 02:16:00,930
want to get a question just keep

3128
02:16:04,700 --> 02:16:02,790
checking for them at the start of the

3129
02:16:07,310 --> 02:16:04,710
week and you should be able to catch it

3130
02:16:09,500 --> 02:16:07,320
so I'm gonna go to a question from a

3131
02:16:12,890 --> 02:16:09,510
very new signee

3132
02:16:14,870 --> 02:16:12,900
called open-minded earthling who

3133
02:16:17,780 --> 02:16:14,880
apparently joined on Friday

3134
02:16:20,780 --> 02:16:17,790
Arnim this question is going to be for

3135
02:16:23,840 --> 02:16:20,790
John and the question is do you agree

3136
02:16:27,200 --> 02:16:23,850
with Jacques Vallee that what happened

3137
02:16:30,590 --> 02:16:27,210
was some kind of human probe security

3138
02:16:34,280 --> 02:16:30,600
threat assessment test or other human

3139
02:16:36,350 --> 02:16:34,290
war games or hoaxes are not from ETA off

3140
02:16:38,540 --> 02:16:36,360
planet so I think he's basically kind of

3141
02:16:41,300 --> 02:16:38,550
trying to say is is that was this some

3142
02:16:43,129 --> 02:16:41,310
kind of SIA is there any possibility in

3143
02:16:46,520 --> 02:16:43,139
your mind that this could have been a

3144
02:16:48,589 --> 02:16:46,530
staged incident I can cover that in two

3145
02:16:50,629 --> 02:16:48,599
segments number one Jacques did say that

3146
02:16:52,040 --> 02:16:50,639
at one point on Costa Coast and then

3147
02:16:54,020 --> 02:16:52,050
after he talked to Colonel Hall they

3148
02:16:55,400 --> 02:16:54,030
redacted that he reversed it and said no

3149
02:16:57,980 --> 02:16:55,410
he didn't believe that was the case

3150
02:16:59,990 --> 02:16:57,990
after all so I have no idea what Colonel

3151
02:17:02,510 --> 02:17:00,000
Hall told him to change his mind I have

3152
02:17:04,160 --> 02:17:02,520
tried to figure or getting a touch with

3153
02:17:04,890 --> 02:17:04,170
Jacques on that I haven't gotten to that

3154
02:17:06,990 --> 02:17:04,900
point yet because I

3155
02:17:09,121 --> 02:17:07,000
busy with a lot of other stuff what I

3156
02:17:11,371 --> 02:17:09,131
will say is this if you know the area

3157
02:17:13,740 --> 02:17:11,381
that we were at there was all kinds of

3158
02:17:15,750 --> 02:17:13,750
classified si P special access programs

3159
02:17:17,250 --> 02:17:15,760
going on during that time frame you had

3160
02:17:18,390 --> 02:17:17,260
Marlowe's from Heath there you had our

3161
02:17:20,100 --> 02:17:18,400
Posse while

3162
02:17:22,170 --> 02:17:20,110
Wootton and a couple other things that

3163
02:17:24,600 --> 02:17:22,180
were out in that area that area is well

3164
02:17:26,520 --> 02:17:24,610
known first development of new

3165
02:17:29,220 --> 02:17:26,530
technology cutting edge technology

3166
02:17:30,810 --> 02:17:29,230
through the years so could actually

3167
02:17:32,760 --> 02:17:30,820
there have been something we were doing

3168
02:17:35,100 --> 02:17:32,770
or involved with to be involved with it

3169
02:17:36,930 --> 02:17:35,110
it's very possible I mean but what's

3170
02:17:39,121 --> 02:17:36,940
clear when you go back to condign again

3171
02:17:41,041 --> 02:17:39,131
that they're aware of a phenomenon that

3172
02:17:42,750 --> 02:17:41,051
exists now a that there was some work

3173
02:17:44,371 --> 02:17:42,760
being done on the phenomenon during the

3174
02:17:46,831 --> 02:17:44,381
timeframe artists it took place by some

3175
02:17:49,291 --> 02:17:46,841
scientists anyway so they're well aware

3176
02:17:51,570 --> 02:17:49,301
that there's a phenomenon area and that

3177
02:17:53,130 --> 02:17:51,580
we were exposed to it but can you rule

3178
02:17:55,590 --> 02:17:53,140
out the fact that we were involved in in

3179
02:17:57,470 --> 02:17:55,600
doing something to either prior you know

3180
02:18:02,400 --> 02:17:57,480
during or after no you can't right now

3181
02:18:05,700 --> 02:18:02,410
chip in on that chip away yeah the SIOP

3182
02:18:08,880 --> 02:18:05,710
theory was kind of effectively put to

3183
02:18:11,220 --> 02:18:08,890
bed I think but when it came out one of

3184
02:18:14,220 --> 02:18:11,230
the documents that we got hold of in in

3185
02:18:16,650 --> 02:18:14,230
researching and writing the book was a

3186
02:18:18,990 --> 02:18:16,660
document entitled the role of behavioral

3187
02:18:22,770 --> 02:18:19,000
science in physical security it

3188
02:18:25,110 --> 02:18:22,780
basically went on to say that yes of

3189
02:18:28,520 --> 02:18:25,120
course you know sometimes you will

3190
02:18:31,730 --> 02:18:28,530
initiate various active procedures

3191
02:18:35,190 --> 02:18:31,740
initiating events to see how how the

3192
02:18:37,200 --> 02:18:35,200
security personnel respond but it went

3193
02:18:39,541 --> 02:18:37,210
on to say you know it talked about

3194
02:18:42,810 --> 02:18:39,551
blackhat assaults as a result of the

3195
02:18:45,210 --> 02:18:42,820
system as a tested system etc etc it

3196
02:18:48,090 --> 02:18:45,220
went on to say everybody early in the

3197
02:18:50,610 --> 02:18:48,100
game knows it's an exercise what you

3198
02:18:52,950 --> 02:18:50,620
cannot do so far as I can see at present

3199
02:18:54,660 --> 02:18:52,960
time is to actually initiate an event

3200
02:18:57,090 --> 02:18:54,670
which will result in the call out of a

3201
02:19:00,240 --> 02:18:57,100
fire team for example without the whole

3202
02:19:02,250 --> 02:19:00,250
system knowing it's an exercise that is

3203
02:19:04,710 --> 02:19:02,260
simply beyond the scope of what we might

3204
02:19:07,650 --> 02:19:04,720
be able to do so yeah we considered of

3205
02:19:08,850 --> 02:19:07,660
course as as part of writing encounter

3206
02:19:10,710 --> 02:19:08,860
in Rendlesham forest

3207
02:19:12,960 --> 02:19:10,720
it would have been dishonest of us not

3208
02:19:14,460 --> 02:19:12,970
to consider all these theories but when

3209
02:19:17,010 --> 02:19:14,470
we consider these theories we always

3210
02:19:18,020 --> 02:19:17,020
tried to chase down paperwork like this

3211
02:19:20,750 --> 02:19:18,030
document

3212
02:19:24,350 --> 02:19:20,760
and again we cite that it's on page it's

3213
02:19:26,600 --> 02:19:24,360
on page 104 so we we kind of dismissed

3214
02:19:28,550 --> 02:19:26,610
that theory like so like they had one

3215
02:19:30,620 --> 02:19:28,560
thing to it though now the reason why I

3216
02:19:32,360 --> 02:19:30,630
say there's still possibility okay even

3217
02:19:34,460 --> 02:19:32,370
though Nick brings up bow points is

3218
02:19:36,920 --> 02:19:34,470
sometimes things are going on this may

3219
02:19:38,420 --> 02:19:36,930
not have even been meant for us to get

3220
02:19:41,690 --> 02:19:38,430
involved with you know what I mean

3221
02:19:42,890 --> 02:19:41,700
because it was actually the areas where

3222
02:19:44,150 --> 02:19:42,900
this would have been going on and

3223
02:19:46,430 --> 02:19:44,160
they've been working on this was far

3224
02:19:48,200 --> 02:19:46,440
enough away from the base that our base

3225
02:19:50,900 --> 02:19:48,210
and our personnel may never even known

3226
02:19:52,190 --> 02:19:50,910
about it number one and number two it is

3227
02:19:54,230 --> 02:19:52,200
kind of convenient this all took place

3228
02:19:56,150 --> 02:19:54,240
over one of the most quiet periods in

3229
02:19:58,310 --> 02:19:56,160
the UK which is over the Christmas

3230
02:19:59,900 --> 02:19:58,320
holidays so all I'm saying is Nick

3231
02:20:02,211 --> 02:19:59,910
brings a vowel points to the other point

3232
02:20:03,830 --> 02:20:02,221
but you can't totally rule out that some

3233
02:20:05,600 --> 02:20:03,840
something we were doing that's something

3234
02:20:07,881 --> 02:20:05,610
to do with what happened either I don't

3235
02:20:09,700 --> 02:20:07,891
feel that way at all well I've got a

3236
02:20:16,671 --> 02:20:09,710
question myself I seem to remember

3237
02:20:18,890 --> 02:20:16,681
vaguely reading or seeing possibly some

3238
02:20:21,790 --> 02:20:18,900
of the airmen security personnel

3239
02:20:24,830 --> 02:20:21,800
involved may have been quite harshly

3240
02:20:27,290 --> 02:20:24,840
interrogated possibly even using kind of

3241
02:20:29,570 --> 02:20:27,300
truth drugs type of thing was there any

3242
02:20:31,580 --> 02:20:29,580
truth to that kind of thing

3243
02:20:32,961 --> 02:20:31,590
there's been several people said

3244
02:20:36,051 --> 02:20:32,971
different things have happened to him

3245
02:20:38,091 --> 02:20:36,061
Jim Penniston is talked about it he

3246
02:20:39,620 --> 02:20:38,101
talked a little bit about being brought

3247
02:20:41,600 --> 02:20:39,630
in several times obviously he would've

3248
02:20:43,370 --> 02:20:41,610
he was in charge that night as far as

3249
02:20:45,350 --> 02:20:43,380
when we went out there but then when he

3250
02:20:48,470 --> 02:20:45,360
goes under hypnosis it does come out

3251
02:20:50,870 --> 02:20:48,480
that he was you know it had I believe

3252
02:20:53,091 --> 02:20:50,880
the sewing pen fall used on him

3253
02:20:55,220 --> 02:20:53,101
other people have vivid memories ever

3254
02:20:57,110 --> 02:20:55,230
happening but the actual drug of choice

3255
02:20:59,330 --> 02:20:57,120
probably would have been pedophile if it

3256
02:21:00,801 --> 02:20:59,340
was used and they could say if because I

3257
02:21:01,131 --> 02:21:00,811
don't have memory of him and had done to

3258
02:21:02,961 --> 02:21:01,141
me

3259
02:21:06,950 --> 02:21:02,971
would have been a math on that pentathol

3260
02:21:08,930 --> 02:21:06,960
and I presume it would be a fos ice that

3261
02:21:12,051 --> 02:21:08,940
would have been administered at ministry

3262
02:21:14,360 --> 02:21:12,061
often not necessarily if what people

3263
02:21:15,591 --> 02:21:14,370
claimed they say saw and remember

3264
02:21:17,720 --> 02:21:15,601
happened it probably would have been

3265
02:21:18,921 --> 02:21:17,730
much higher above OSI there would have

3266
02:21:20,980 --> 02:21:18,931
been actually people from the British

3267
02:21:24,560 --> 02:21:20,990
government up in their agencies and

3268
02:21:26,050 --> 02:21:24,570
probably CIA dia dia you know NSA could

3269
02:21:28,090 --> 02:21:26,060
have been involved

3270
02:21:29,530 --> 02:21:28,100
but again I'm just telling you this you

3271
02:21:30,250 --> 02:21:29,540
asked the question I don't have any

3272
02:21:32,530 --> 02:21:30,260
proof of that

3273
02:21:34,660 --> 02:21:32,540
or do I have every memory of that but

3274
02:21:37,420 --> 02:21:34,670
other people have brought this up so

3275
02:21:40,179 --> 02:21:37,430
I've just to clarify John since you

3276
02:21:41,950 --> 02:21:40,189
achieve this victory against the VA you

3277
02:21:43,750 --> 02:21:41,960
haven't been contacted by anybody in the

3278
02:21:46,990 --> 02:21:43,760
government about Rendlesham or anything

3279
02:21:49,630 --> 02:21:47,000
right no other than I'll tell you the

3280
02:21:51,160 --> 02:21:49,640
thing that stands out they'd still want

3281
02:21:53,229 --> 02:21:51,170
to answer the question on the records

3282
02:21:56,080 --> 02:21:53,239
they still won't give the final case

3283
02:21:58,630 --> 02:21:56,090
file review and what happened was after

3284
02:22:00,370 --> 02:21:58,640
I got this it was funny senator McCain's

3285
02:22:01,450 --> 02:22:00,380
office was never directly involved as

3286
02:22:02,950 --> 02:22:01,460
far as what I mean is getting the

3287
02:22:05,380 --> 02:22:02,960
initials stuff that always come to me

3288
02:22:06,729 --> 02:22:05,390
but right at the end they finally did

3289
02:22:08,170 --> 02:22:06,739
what my senator mccain's always been

3290
02:22:11,649 --> 02:22:08,180
asked for in the first place sent it to

3291
02:22:13,510 --> 02:22:11,659
them but they did now try to get out of

3292
02:22:15,609 --> 02:22:13,520
the final thing which was the FOIA which

3293
02:22:17,469 --> 02:22:15,619
is a big deal and where my records are

3294
02:22:20,649 --> 02:22:17,479
and you know what classification they

3295
02:22:22,030 --> 02:22:20,659
are so indirectly yes directly no no

3296
02:22:24,330 --> 02:22:22,040
one's picked up the phone and talked to

3297
02:22:26,979 --> 02:22:24,340
me about why they gave it to me

3298
02:22:29,559 --> 02:22:26,989
just let it happen don't draw attention

3299
02:22:33,460 --> 02:22:29,569
to it that's kind of what we're thinking

3300
02:22:35,590 --> 02:22:33,470
is going on I think yeah I can only you

3301
02:22:37,479 --> 02:22:35,600
know just give you our guests on why

3302
02:22:39,609 --> 02:22:37,489
this happened I think there was a threat

3303
02:22:41,889 --> 02:22:39,619
there was a threat that we would go to

3304
02:22:43,780 --> 02:22:41,899
court which they knew who was viable

3305
02:22:45,309 --> 02:22:43,790
that what we were gonna go I want to

3306
02:22:47,800 --> 02:22:45,319
clarify where we were gonna go with this

3307
02:22:49,870 --> 02:22:47,810
we were gonna go in because what was

3308
02:22:51,550 --> 02:22:49,880
being suggested was well they can't

3309
02:22:52,780 --> 02:22:51,560
confirm first of all I wasn't in the

3310
02:22:54,609 --> 02:22:52,790
military but once we got it straightened

3311
02:22:56,649 --> 02:22:54,619
out they can't see my records so they

3312
02:22:59,410 --> 02:22:56,659
can't confirm that I was injured you

3313
02:23:01,660 --> 02:22:59,420
know during the timeframe I say I was so

3314
02:23:03,700 --> 02:23:01,670
if in fact they were going to continue

3315
02:23:05,349 --> 02:23:03,710
to deny me on that fact we were prepared

3316
02:23:07,030 --> 02:23:05,359
to go to federal court and ask for

3317
02:23:08,710 --> 02:23:07,040
because we could not get an answer and

3318
02:23:11,200 --> 02:23:08,720
we still can't get an answer to this day

3319
02:23:12,670 --> 02:23:11,210
where my medical records are and why

3320
02:23:15,670 --> 02:23:12,680
they're classified and why they're being

3321
02:23:17,530 --> 02:23:15,680
held up to even the extent of what they

3322
02:23:19,210 --> 02:23:17,540
they admitted in this thing which is

3323
02:23:21,069 --> 02:23:19,220
very interesting to us and we want an

3324
02:23:24,069 --> 02:23:21,079
answer on this but we haven't got one

3325
02:23:26,740 --> 02:23:24,079
yet we're still trying is it pops up in

3326
02:23:28,809 --> 02:23:26,750
what they reviewed was my records my

3327
02:23:30,910 --> 02:23:28,819
medical records now the case file that

3328
02:23:32,050 --> 02:23:30,920
we have gotten our hands on they even

3329
02:23:34,450 --> 02:23:32,060
discuss the fact that they had no

3330
02:23:35,920 --> 02:23:34,460
medical records now where did these

3331
02:23:37,719 --> 02:23:35,930
medical records all of a sudden come

3332
02:23:38,889 --> 02:23:37,729
from because they've denied all along

3333
02:23:39,841 --> 02:23:38,899
that they have ever had records from

3334
02:23:41,640 --> 02:23:39,851
1780

3335
02:23:43,620 --> 02:23:41,650
so these are a lot of unanswered

3336
02:23:45,660 --> 02:23:43,630
questions yet that need to be answered

3337
02:23:47,160 --> 02:23:45,670
to include the fact that it was brought

3338
02:23:48,780 --> 02:23:47,170
up in Phoenix it was interesting when we

3339
02:23:50,370 --> 02:23:48,790
made the announcement a couple attorneys

3340
02:23:51,690 --> 02:23:50,380
stood up and said you know you have a

3341
02:23:53,131 --> 02:23:51,700
right to your records which is the law

3342
02:23:54,631 --> 02:23:53,141
and you should get them because you

3343
02:23:56,820 --> 02:23:54,641
never know what can happen in the future

3344
02:23:58,921 --> 02:23:56,830
and yet they continue not to want to let

3345
02:24:02,011 --> 02:23:58,931
me look at my past records or have any

3346
02:24:03,990 --> 02:24:02,021
involvement in my Kerner's well that

3347
02:24:05,640 --> 02:24:04,000
might require following a lawsuit too in

3348
02:24:07,051 --> 02:24:05,650
federal court but well that's what they

3349
02:24:09,301 --> 02:24:07,061
suggested and they said they were

3350
02:24:12,330 --> 02:24:09,311
willing to support us and doing it and

3351
02:24:16,051 --> 02:24:12,340
volunteer their time all right one more

3352
02:24:20,660 --> 02:24:16,061
segment with John burrows Nick Pope gene

3353
02:24:26,760 --> 02:24:20,670
and GOx Makai you're in the podcast

3354
02:24:30,580 --> 02:24:26,770
[Music]

3355
02:24:33,070 --> 02:24:30,590
great minds think alike the network for

3356
02:24:38,230 --> 02:24:33,080
the independent finding the genesis

3357
02:24:40,180 --> 02:24:38,240
communications network G C attack of the

3358
02:24:42,490 --> 02:24:40,190
rock codes has been well-received by

3359
02:24:44,530 --> 02:24:42,500
critics and readers alike it's a thrill

3360
02:24:46,930 --> 02:24:44,540
a minute story you'll never forget a

3361
02:24:49,570 --> 02:24:46,940
former US military intelligence officer

3362
02:24:52,090 --> 02:24:49,580
is haunted by intense dreams about a

3363
02:24:54,480 --> 02:24:52,100
beautiful woman pleading for his help

3364
02:24:57,070 --> 02:24:54,490
after a terrible battle in outer space

3365
02:24:59,380 --> 02:24:57,080
but the dreams turn out to be true and

3366
02:25:01,750 --> 02:24:59,390
thrust him into a telepathic love affair

3367
02:25:04,960 --> 02:25:01,760
with a woman whose faraway planet is

3368
02:25:07,180 --> 02:25:04,970
intent on destroying the earth and now

3369
02:25:09,910 --> 02:25:07,190
the gripping tale continues in the

3370
02:25:12,640 --> 02:25:09,920
coming of the protectors it's the second

3371
02:25:14,530 --> 02:25:12,650
book of the Rockets trilogy a galaxy

3372
02:25:17,260 --> 02:25:14,540
spanning adventure that fits our hapless

3373
02:25:19,330 --> 02:25:17,270
heroes against powerful fanatical

3374
02:25:22,240 --> 02:25:19,340
enemies that threaten the lives of

3375
02:25:24,730 --> 02:25:22,250
freedom loving beings everywhere attack

3376
02:25:27,610 --> 02:25:24,740
of the rockets and the coming of the

3377
02:25:30,880 --> 02:25:27,620
protectors classic science fiction at

3378
02:25:35,620 --> 02:25:30,890
its best available now for more details

3379
02:25:38,470 --> 02:25:35,630
visit Rocko is calm that's our Ock o IDs

3380
02:25:40,420 --> 02:25:38,480
dot-com by now you may have heard a bit

3381
02:25:42,220 --> 02:25:40,430
about bitcoins but did you know bitcoins

3382
02:25:44,340 --> 02:25:42,230
are now over an eight point five billion

3383
02:25:47,080 --> 02:25:44,350
dollar market and did you know that over

3384
02:25:48,640 --> 02:25:47,090
65,000 businesses now accept bitcoins

3385
02:25:50,470 --> 02:25:48,650
listen if you're already earning

3386
02:25:52,510 --> 02:25:50,480
bitcoins or trying to make money in the

3387
02:25:55,570 --> 02:25:52,520
Bitcoin market you've got to know bit

3388
02:25:57,550 --> 02:25:55,580
bit Co why because vid bit Co is where

3389
02:25:59,230 --> 02:25:57,560
you can easily receive bitcoins by

3390
02:26:01,270 --> 02:25:59,240
selling and auctioning off your own

3391
02:26:03,310 --> 02:26:01,280
personal items or promote business

3392
02:26:04,960 --> 02:26:03,320
products and services for bitcoins you

3393
02:26:07,510 --> 02:26:04,970
heard right whether personal or business

3394
02:26:09,610 --> 02:26:07,520
you can now buy sell and auction your

3395
02:26:12,430 --> 02:26:09,620
product and services quickly easily and

3396
02:26:14,350 --> 02:26:12,440
securely for Bitcoin at bid bit Co the

3397
02:26:16,450 --> 02:26:14,360
first and only marketplace website to

3398
02:26:18,460 --> 02:26:16,460
offer big bit escrow a proprietary

3399
02:26:20,320 --> 02:26:18,470
technology which give buyers and sellers

3400
02:26:22,660 --> 02:26:20,330
security and peace of mind because all

3401
02:26:24,580 --> 02:26:22,670
transactions are protected start today

3402
02:26:25,610 --> 02:26:24,590
it's free to join free to vote free to

3403
02:26:28,850 --> 02:26:25,620
auction and free

3404
02:26:32,140 --> 02:26:28,860
to bid at Fitbit Co buy/sell bid or

3405
02:27:08,330 --> 02:26:32,150
auction everything Bitcoin that's

3406
02:27:10,520 --> 02:27:08,340
www.dvc.edu/financialaid have found a

3407
02:27:12,230 --> 02:27:10,530
solution with a nationwide network of

3408
02:27:14,450 --> 02:27:12,240
six thousand nine hundred attorneys who

3409
02:27:16,670 --> 02:27:14,460
average 19 years of experience legal

3410
02:27:18,740 --> 02:27:16,680
Shields law firms take over 40,000 calls

3411
02:27:21,080 --> 02:27:18,750
per week helping their members for less

3412
02:27:22,880 --> 02:27:21,090
than $20 per month you can have access

3413
02:27:24,980 --> 02:27:22,890
to legal shield on everything from the

3414
02:27:27,110 --> 02:27:24,990
trivial to the traumatic let legal

3415
02:27:28,341 --> 02:27:27,120
shield stand up for your rights at LS

3416
02:27:36,680 --> 02:27:28,351
protection calm

3417
02:27:39,080 --> 02:27:36,690
4 0 save 855 3 4 0 70 283 results will

3418
02:27:41,480 --> 02:27:39,090
vary from case to case there's a man

3419
02:27:42,950 --> 02:27:41,490
named dr. Joel Wallach who is anything

3420
02:27:45,650 --> 02:27:42,960
but your typical doctor both a

3421
02:27:47,990 --> 02:27:45,660
veterinarian and naturopathic physician

3422
02:27:50,180 --> 02:27:48,000
doc asks why does the United States

3423
02:27:52,400 --> 02:27:50,190
spend more money on health care by far

3424
02:27:54,650 --> 02:27:52,410
and still ranked 50th and health and

3425
02:27:56,450 --> 02:27:54,660
longevity worldwide he believes that

3426
02:27:58,940 --> 02:27:56,460
people should empower themselves with a

3427
02:28:00,320 --> 02:27:58,950
basic understanding of nutrition take

3428
02:28:02,480 --> 02:28:00,330
charge of their health and attain

3429
02:28:05,030 --> 02:28:02,490
optimal health and longevity through

3430
02:28:07,160 --> 02:28:05,040
nutrition not by toxic prescription

3431
02:28:09,920 --> 02:28:07,170
drugs that lead to side effects and more

3432
02:28:12,440 --> 02:28:09,930
toxic prescription drugs doc Wallace

3433
02:28:14,630 --> 02:28:12,450
message is resonating with an increasing

3434
02:28:16,761 --> 02:28:14,640
number of Americans who are waking up to

3435
02:28:18,801 --> 02:28:16,771
all the big government big farmer and

3436
02:28:21,170 --> 02:28:18,811
big insurance manipulation of our

3437
02:28:22,850 --> 02:28:21,180
healthcare system I'm George Dori and I

3438
02:28:24,770 --> 02:28:22,860
like what doc Wallach is saying and

3439
02:28:27,261 --> 02:28:24,780
doing to enlighten people about health

3440
02:28:29,240 --> 02:28:27,271
care visit bright side Bend calm and

3441
02:28:31,280 --> 02:28:29,250
listened to doc Wallach steadily recipes

3442
02:28:33,261 --> 02:28:31,290
lecture it makes a lot of sense and I

3443
02:28:35,990 --> 02:28:33,271
urge you to join the bright side Ben

3444
02:28:40,990 --> 02:28:36,000
team go to bright side Ben calm that's

3445
02:28:57,560 --> 02:28:50,530
[Music]

3446
02:28:59,210 --> 02:28:57,570
we have John Burroughs and Nick Pope of

3447
02:29:01,850 --> 02:28:59,220
course John is celebrating the victory

3448
02:29:04,340 --> 02:29:01,860
getting his health benefits finally

3449
02:29:07,280 --> 02:29:04,350
after a huge fight from the Veterans

3450
02:29:08,900 --> 02:29:07,290
Administration now in ongoing treatment

3451
02:29:11,090 --> 02:29:08,910
here if you actually gone to the VA or

3452
02:29:13,310 --> 02:29:11,100
private physicians to get ongoing

3453
02:29:15,440 --> 02:29:13,320
treatment actually to make a long story

3454
02:29:17,630 --> 02:29:15,450
short when McCain senator McCain's

3455
02:29:19,880 --> 02:29:17,640
office really started pushing all of a

3456
02:29:22,760 --> 02:29:19,890
sudden things expedited and it expedited

3457
02:29:25,460 --> 02:29:22,770
for two reasons his involvement in a

3458
02:29:27,410 --> 02:29:25,470
letter received from I cannot name the

3459
02:29:29,360 --> 02:29:27,420
doctor but is a forensic doctor that

3460
02:29:31,700 --> 02:29:29,370
understood radiation and what it

3461
02:29:33,670 --> 02:29:31,710
probably was wrote up a letter sent as a

3462
02:29:35,720 --> 02:29:33,680
path it's basically attorney

3463
02:29:37,250 --> 02:29:35,730
patient-doctor privilege that I can't

3464
02:29:39,290 --> 02:29:37,260
release the name or everything that was

3465
02:29:41,450 --> 02:29:39,300
in it but once that letter was presented

3466
02:29:43,940 --> 02:29:41,460
to the VA all of a sudden things started

3467
02:29:45,860 --> 02:29:43,950
to change what my surgery was done by

3468
02:29:47,660 --> 02:29:45,870
the VA and the to heart institute down

3469
02:29:49,670 --> 02:29:47,670
there the Arizona you know University of

3470
02:29:51,050 --> 02:29:49,680
Tucson and the VA as a major medical

3471
02:29:53,330 --> 02:29:51,060
heart institute down there

3472
02:29:56,690 --> 02:29:53,340
the surgery was done there all this is

3473
02:29:58,700 --> 02:29:56,700
Phoenix or Tucson Tucson the reason that

3474
02:30:00,770 --> 02:29:58,710
their office is down there as far as

3475
02:30:03,140 --> 02:30:00,780
where they take care of our patients so

3476
02:30:04,520 --> 02:30:03,150
that was all done but like I've said and

3477
02:30:06,800 --> 02:30:04,530
I want to keep we're a new people even

3478
02:30:08,360 --> 02:30:06,810
my current records are classified in

3479
02:30:10,070 --> 02:30:08,370
other words everything having to do with

3480
02:30:11,510 --> 02:30:10,080
my heart all the stuff that went on or

3481
02:30:13,460 --> 02:30:11,520
locked up and we can't I can't get

3482
02:30:15,200 --> 02:30:13,470
access to I was able to get copies of

3483
02:30:17,600 --> 02:30:15,210
some of this stuff but not all of this

3484
02:30:20,660 --> 02:30:17,610
stuff which is against federal law John

3485
02:30:23,930 --> 02:30:20,670
I'm just imagining a situation where you

3486
02:30:26,480 --> 02:30:23,940
could be down at your local VA branch or

3487
02:30:27,830 --> 02:30:26,490
one of their medical facilities and

3488
02:30:29,900 --> 02:30:27,840
maybe you're sitting in a waiting room

3489
02:30:32,810 --> 02:30:29,910
and there are some other veterans maybe

3490
02:30:35,480 --> 02:30:32,820
of you know a recent war somebody with a

3491
02:30:37,640 --> 02:30:35,490
limb missing somebody with PTSD and

3492
02:30:40,070 --> 02:30:37,650
maybe you start up a conversation and

3493
02:30:42,350 --> 02:30:40,080
you know one soldier says to an airman

3494
02:30:44,270 --> 02:30:42,360
so what are you here for and the other

3495
02:30:46,340 --> 02:30:44,280
one says what am I here for has anyone

3496
02:30:48,440 --> 02:30:46,350
ever asked you to do what are you here

3497
02:30:50,890 --> 02:30:48,450
for and you you're like well I goes up

3498
02:30:53,350 --> 02:30:50,900
by a UFO another Celina not

3499
02:30:55,421 --> 02:30:53,360
I haven't come across that yet now what

3500
02:30:57,371 --> 02:30:55,431
is interesting no since you've asked the

3501
02:30:59,470 --> 02:30:57,381
question there's a lot of the doctors

3502
02:31:01,990 --> 02:30:59,480
are very interested in this and they

3503
02:31:04,331 --> 02:31:02,000
start asking questions including the

3504
02:31:05,890 --> 02:31:04,341
doctor I had up in Cottonwood when he

3505
02:31:07,660 --> 02:31:05,900
wanted to look at some stuff and he came

3506
02:31:09,610 --> 02:31:07,670
back and told me he was denied access to

3507
02:31:12,100 --> 02:31:09,620
it only certain people could look at it

3508
02:31:14,440 --> 02:31:12,110
so the doctors have had show more

3509
02:31:16,121 --> 02:31:14,450
interest in this because of what they

3510
02:31:17,740 --> 02:31:16,131
can and can't look at within my files

3511
02:31:19,990 --> 02:31:17,750
and only certain people can look at me

3512
02:31:21,700 --> 02:31:20,000
so far it hasn't come up you know

3513
02:31:23,591 --> 02:31:21,710
otherwise I'd be there probably all day

3514
02:31:25,091 --> 02:31:23,601
I'm more likely would just tell them you

3515
02:31:27,041 --> 02:31:25,101
know I'm in here for heart problems

3516
02:31:29,621 --> 02:31:27,051
what's by the way let me let me clarify

3517
02:31:31,751 --> 02:31:29,631
that the latest doctor I just seen so

3518
02:31:33,671 --> 02:31:31,761
she's never enter in the history of her

3519
02:31:36,280 --> 02:31:33,681
being in the VA has ever seen anybody

3520
02:31:37,871 --> 02:31:36,290
get what I got she didn't understand it

3521
02:31:38,860 --> 02:31:37,881
herself and was trying to look into it

3522
02:31:40,961 --> 02:31:38,870
was denied access

3523
02:31:43,600 --> 02:31:40,971
well that sure makes it easy to treat

3524
02:31:45,791 --> 02:31:43,610
you but none of these doctors asks at

3525
02:31:47,740 --> 02:31:45,801
all how you got this injury or did they

3526
02:31:49,600 --> 02:31:47,750
no they try to ask they do they start

3527
02:31:51,190 --> 02:31:49,610
asking questions they want to know I

3528
02:31:52,450 --> 02:31:51,200
mean it was interesting when I was

3529
02:31:54,400 --> 02:31:52,460
having the heart procedures there were

3530
02:31:55,990 --> 02:31:54,410
some doctors that came in there it was

3531
02:31:58,631 --> 02:31:56,000
very interesting I was going in for one

3532
02:32:00,520 --> 02:31:58,641
procedure and I was going with this one

3533
02:32:01,600 --> 02:32:00,530
doctor that was working for my surgeon

3534
02:32:03,881 --> 02:32:01,610
because they wanted to look at the valve

3535
02:32:06,371 --> 02:32:03,891
put the camera down my throat the gag

3536
02:32:08,320 --> 02:32:06,381
factor for me was so bad that she right

3537
02:32:09,791 --> 02:32:08,330
away realized it couldn't do it and

3538
02:32:11,921 --> 02:32:09,801
never had there been extensive damage

3539
02:32:13,331 --> 02:32:11,931
and her comment was as these doctors

3540
02:32:15,131 --> 02:32:13,341
coming in we're not going to do the

3541
02:32:16,930 --> 02:32:15,141
tests they already tried to put me down

3542
02:32:18,160 --> 02:32:16,940
the way they wouldn't stuff she's worse

3543
02:32:19,720 --> 02:32:18,170
is not going to do the tests to stay

3544
02:32:21,881 --> 02:32:19,730
there's clearly there's enough damage so

3545
02:32:23,200 --> 02:32:21,891
we don't need to we put him under prior

3546
02:32:25,150 --> 02:32:23,210
to doing a surgery we'll take a look

3547
02:32:26,440 --> 02:32:25,160
then these two doctors stepped up and

3548
02:32:28,060 --> 02:32:26,450
one of them took her side and I could

3549
02:32:30,610 --> 02:32:28,070
hear the conversation as it started said

3550
02:32:32,140 --> 02:32:30,620
I don't really care what you say I'm

3551
02:32:33,551 --> 02:32:32,150
telling you this test needs to be done

3552
02:32:36,371 --> 02:32:33,561
today and if you need to knock him out

3553
02:32:38,051 --> 02:32:36,381
knock him out and she says I'm not gonna

3554
02:32:39,940 --> 02:32:38,061
do it so if you want to go above my head

3555
02:32:41,081 --> 02:32:39,950
to have it done go ahead and then they

3556
02:32:42,610 --> 02:32:41,091
took it out in the hallway and it came

3557
02:32:44,890 --> 02:32:42,620
back in and it's just as well and they

3558
02:32:46,240 --> 02:32:44,900
left she says well um you're gonna go

3559
02:32:48,371 --> 02:32:46,250
home we're not going to do the test will

3560
02:32:50,291 --> 02:32:48,381
do a prior to the surgery and when they

3561
02:32:53,200 --> 02:32:50,301
did the surgery they find anything

3562
02:32:54,761 --> 02:32:53,210
interesting as a result things that they

3563
02:32:56,621 --> 02:32:54,771
might have discovered in those tests

3564
02:32:58,480 --> 02:32:56,631
well there was two things that went on

3565
02:33:00,581 --> 02:32:58,490
that were interesting after the surgery

3566
02:33:02,470 --> 02:33:00,591
what Pat said earlier that the doctor

3567
02:33:03,160 --> 02:33:02,480
said he could not see what was wrong

3568
02:33:04,780 --> 02:33:03,170
with me

3569
02:33:07,000 --> 02:33:04,790
understand how it happened or what was

3570
02:33:08,710 --> 02:33:07,010
wrong with me what caused the damage and

3571
02:33:11,050 --> 02:33:08,720
the second thing was they did some tests

3572
02:33:13,060 --> 02:33:11,060
that were done I was drugged a couple of

3573
02:33:15,640 --> 02:33:13,070
doctors came in and asked to draw some

3574
02:33:17,860 --> 02:33:15,650
blood and do certain tests and they told

3575
02:33:20,110 --> 02:33:17,870
me that it was to look at look at my

3576
02:33:21,700 --> 02:33:20,120
immune system I went ahead and said they

3577
02:33:24,400 --> 02:33:21,710
could do it it was done off site and

3578
02:33:26,800 --> 02:33:24,410
I've never got any answers other than I

3579
02:33:29,710 --> 02:33:26,810
was able to and I did this purposely I

3580
02:33:32,260 --> 02:33:29,720
went downstairs a day after I was a

3581
02:33:34,000 --> 02:33:32,270
couple days after I went downstairs and

3582
02:33:36,130 --> 02:33:34,010
started trying to get some of my files

3583
02:33:37,570 --> 02:33:36,140
because I knew some of this stuff was

3584
02:33:39,219 --> 02:33:37,580
already locked up I already tried to get

3585
02:33:42,010 --> 02:33:39,229
to some sub prior I did get a couple

3586
02:33:43,660 --> 02:33:42,020
little things from them but the majority

3587
02:33:45,550 --> 02:33:43,670
of this stuff everything I went on to

3588
02:33:47,560 --> 02:33:45,560
including the echo done afterwards and

3589
02:33:49,840 --> 02:33:47,570
everything is all locked up they caught

3590
02:33:51,910 --> 02:33:49,850
the Vista system and the Vista system is

3591
02:33:54,310 --> 02:33:51,920
a direct link between the VA and DOD it

3592
02:33:55,900 --> 02:33:54,320
also has to do with paperless but it is

3593
02:33:57,670 --> 02:33:55,910
a direct link between the DoD and the VA

3594
02:33:59,650 --> 02:33:57,680
so they can go back and forth on

3595
02:34:01,450 --> 02:33:59,660
military injuries but the interesting

3596
02:34:04,600 --> 02:34:01,460
thing was I've asked over and over

3597
02:34:06,040 --> 02:34:04,610
repeatedly to get those that portion is

3598
02:34:07,510 --> 02:34:06,050
locked up what you can't read what

3599
02:34:09,700 --> 02:34:07,520
they're saying and who the doctors are

3600
02:34:12,070 --> 02:34:09,710
and they will not give me that how it

3601
02:34:13,840 --> 02:34:12,080
hurts so there's still more to this and

3602
02:34:15,910 --> 02:34:13,850
there's still more to be done which is a

3603
02:34:17,350 --> 02:34:15,920
valid point of what Nick said there's

3604
02:34:18,910 --> 02:34:17,360
only so much we're gonna say right now

3605
02:34:20,950 --> 02:34:18,920
because there's still stuff going on

3606
02:34:23,230 --> 02:34:20,960
within this so we can't go into too much

3607
02:34:25,270 --> 02:34:23,240
detail other than talk a little bit

3608
02:34:26,920 --> 02:34:25,280
about what happened and and stuff you

3609
02:34:29,500 --> 02:34:26,930
know what went on because they're still

3610
02:34:31,240 --> 02:34:29,510
denying me access to my records and

3611
02:34:33,219 --> 02:34:31,250
they're still denying me and you know

3612
02:34:36,070 --> 02:34:33,229
and in fairness some of it is well okay

3613
02:34:38,890 --> 02:34:36,080
yeah my VA doctors have access to it or

3614
02:34:40,780 --> 02:34:38,900
some of them do but you know by law I'm

3615
02:34:42,760 --> 02:34:40,790
supposed to be able to have all this and

3616
02:34:44,200 --> 02:34:42,770
they just will not take care of that

3617
02:34:45,910 --> 02:34:44,210
part but something like that can last

3618
02:34:47,980 --> 02:34:45,920
for years if they want to Stonewall you

3619
02:34:50,230 --> 02:34:47,990
they could do unless you got publicity

3620
02:34:53,860 --> 02:34:50,240
and that's a good question to this press

3621
02:34:56,350 --> 02:34:53,870
release came out on the 22nd and that of

3622
02:34:58,900 --> 02:34:56,360
course was the final day of the

3623
02:35:00,969 --> 02:34:58,910
International UFO Congress what kind of

3624
02:35:03,130 --> 02:35:00,979
response have you gotten to it most of

3625
02:35:04,810 --> 02:35:03,140
it's been positive I think most of the

3626
02:35:07,090 --> 02:35:04,820
people that have faulted understand

3627
02:35:08,650 --> 02:35:07,100
exactly what happened they saw the

3628
02:35:10,510 --> 02:35:08,660
beginning through the middle and now

3629
02:35:12,310 --> 02:35:10,520
towards the end of it and they saw that

3630
02:35:14,219 --> 02:35:12,320
there's been proof provided all along

3631
02:35:15,989 --> 02:35:14,229
that I've been I doze in better

3632
02:35:17,939 --> 02:35:15,999
and at the end of the day the

3633
02:35:20,550 --> 02:35:17,949
announcement was made because I I

3634
02:35:22,109 --> 02:35:20,560
personally considered what to do with it

3635
02:35:24,449 --> 02:35:22,119
when I got it because one of the things

3636
02:35:25,979 --> 02:35:24,459
that concerned me was well if I don't

3637
02:35:27,209 --> 02:35:25,989
announce it I'm not being fair because I

3638
02:35:28,679 --> 02:35:27,219
took a public so I needed to say

3639
02:35:30,119 --> 02:35:28,689
something but if I don't say certain

3640
02:35:31,889 --> 02:35:30,129
things then there's gonna be people

3641
02:35:33,899 --> 02:35:31,899
denied saying that I now been bought out

3642
02:35:36,569 --> 02:35:33,909
by the government and all this other

3643
02:35:38,099 --> 02:35:36,579
stuff but what's interesting is the few

3644
02:35:40,019 --> 02:35:38,109
things that have been negative kind of

3645
02:35:43,050 --> 02:35:40,029
been total negative but they're pushing

3646
02:35:44,880 --> 02:35:43,060
to see some evidence of what I said

3647
02:35:46,380 --> 02:35:44,890
that's going to be taken care of shortly

3648
02:35:48,059 --> 02:35:46,390
I'm not going to go into the way it's

3649
02:35:49,920 --> 02:35:48,069
going to be put out but it's going to be

3650
02:35:52,079 --> 02:35:49,930
done out and what I mean by credible

3651
02:35:54,389 --> 02:35:52,089
it's going to be verified and put out by

3652
02:35:56,340 --> 02:35:54,399
in a way that's gonna draw attention

3653
02:35:57,869 --> 02:35:56,350
hopefully to this whole thing even

3654
02:36:01,199 --> 02:35:57,879
further that's the best I can say right

3655
02:36:03,779 --> 02:36:01,209
now Nick since we're just about ready to

3656
02:36:06,329 --> 02:36:03,789
wrap things up where do you intend to go

3657
02:36:07,920 --> 02:36:06,339
from here in terms of studying UFOs in

3658
02:36:10,279 --> 02:36:07,930
addition to this case anything else that

3659
02:36:12,929 --> 02:36:10,289
you are trying to consider and pursue

3660
02:36:16,019 --> 02:36:12,939
well I think it actually ties back with

3661
02:36:19,499 --> 02:36:16,029
what John has been involved with some of

3662
02:36:22,559 --> 02:36:19,509
the supporting papers and documents that

3663
02:36:25,679 --> 02:36:22,569
went into project condign have yet to be

3664
02:36:28,349 --> 02:36:25,689
released John has made multiple Freedom

3665
02:36:30,380 --> 02:36:28,359
of Information Act requests on that as a

3666
02:36:33,840 --> 02:36:30,390
result of that as a direct result

3667
02:36:36,539 --> 02:36:33,850
transpired that 18 more Ministry of

3668
02:36:40,439 --> 02:36:36,549
Defense UFO FILES will be coming out

3669
02:36:42,119 --> 02:36:40,449
this year and remember of course a year

3670
02:36:44,579 --> 02:36:42,129
or so ago the Ministry of Defense said

3671
02:36:47,279 --> 02:36:44,589
we've released absolutely everything so

3672
02:36:49,920 --> 02:36:47,289
there is certainly more to come on this

3673
02:36:52,199 --> 02:36:49,930
and and I will be involved and as John

3674
02:36:54,719 --> 02:36:52,209
was responsible for getting John I'm

3675
02:36:56,880 --> 02:36:54,729
sure will be involved too in some media

3676
02:36:59,099 --> 02:36:56,890
work to promote those files when they

3677
02:37:00,869 --> 02:36:59,109
are released so you know watch this

3678
02:37:04,170 --> 02:37:00,879
space there are there are definitely

3679
02:37:06,269 --> 02:37:04,180
things that you know we we hope to get

3680
02:37:08,069 --> 02:37:06,279
out there Nick Pope where can our

3681
02:37:10,170 --> 02:37:08,079
listeners get more information on the

3682
02:37:13,380 --> 02:37:10,180
things you do my website which is Nick

3683
02:37:16,289 --> 02:37:13,390
Pope don't net okay John do you have a

3684
02:37:18,329 --> 02:37:16,299
website yet no I don't again I've been

3685
02:37:20,069 --> 02:37:18,339
focused you know and the research end of

3686
02:37:21,929 --> 02:37:20,079
it and trying to you know as far as for

3687
02:37:23,670 --> 02:37:21,939
my medical issues and stuff there might

3688
02:37:24,989 --> 02:37:23,680
be something down in a row but can I

3689
02:37:26,550 --> 02:37:24,999
read a quote here that I think is very

3690
02:37:27,150 --> 02:37:26,560
important okay

3691
02:37:28,920 --> 02:37:27,160
was done

3692
02:37:30,930 --> 02:37:28,930
by Nick a few years ago before all this

3693
02:37:33,600 --> 02:37:30,940
started to break and he did this quote

3694
02:37:35,520 --> 02:37:33,610
he did it on a particular documentaries

3695
02:37:37,470 --> 02:37:35,530
doing he says I've gone on record saying

3696
02:37:39,180 --> 02:37:37,480
the Rendlesham might be the turning

3697
02:37:42,030 --> 02:37:39,190
point in history that leads to the

3698
02:37:43,381 --> 02:37:42,040
explanation of UFO phenomena and I'm not

3699
02:37:45,240 --> 02:37:43,391
sure what he knew when he made that

3700
02:37:46,950 --> 02:37:45,250
quote but I think that's where this is

3701
02:37:49,170 --> 02:37:46,960
going to end up at the end of the day

3702
02:37:50,610 --> 02:37:49,180
this is going to be something at least

3703
02:37:53,520 --> 02:37:50,620
the confirmation to what we're doing

3704
02:37:55,261 --> 02:37:53,530
okay you can find us on Twitter we're

3705
02:37:58,381 --> 02:37:55,271
known as the power cast look with the

3706
02:38:00,990 --> 02:37:58,391
power cast on Twitter also on Facebook

3707
02:38:03,720 --> 02:38:01,000
there are two power cast fan clubs use

3708
02:38:04,560 --> 02:38:03,730
either one if we get rid of one we lose

3709
02:38:06,750 --> 02:38:04,570
the other

3710
02:38:08,881 --> 02:38:06,760
you know we lose that it disappears you

3711
02:38:11,070 --> 02:38:08,891
can combine your memberships but all the

3712
02:38:14,040 --> 02:38:11,080
content disappears we don't want that

3713
02:38:16,680 --> 02:38:14,050
shame on you Facebook you could also

3714
02:38:19,170 --> 02:38:16,690
check out our forms of form dr. power

3715
02:38:22,381 --> 02:38:19,180
cast calm and if you want to get the

3716
02:38:24,390 --> 02:38:22,391
high quality audio at free version of

3717
02:38:28,051 --> 02:38:24,400
the show Plus after the power cast

3718
02:38:31,020 --> 02:38:28,061
podcast go to plus dr. power cast com+

3719
02:38:33,450 --> 02:38:31,030
dr. eric ascom you subscribe for one

3720
02:38:36,000 --> 02:38:33,460
year or more get a copy of the eBook

3721
02:38:38,610 --> 02:38:36,010
version of stalking the tricksters from

3722
02:38:41,551 --> 02:38:38,620
Chris O'Brien for a subscription of one

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year or more at plus dr. Peric ascom

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John Burroughs Nick Pope thanks for

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joining us on the power cast thank you

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the para cast featuring gene Steinberg

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and Christopher O'Brien is a copyrighted

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presentation of making the impossible